071 LPD thread
- Thread starter sumdud
- Start date
Well said Asif, couldn't agree with you more
antiterror13
Brigadier
Yeapp, I thought it wouldn't be too difficult to upgrade CIWS and add a couple of HQ-10 launchers. It is just a matter of priority, not a budget or technical issue
plawolf
Lieutenant General
It's not like the 071s don't have any self defence. 4 X CIWS is some serious close defence as it is. But more importantly, we need to look at the likely operational environments these might realistically be used in.
In a Tawian scenario, even if you do add FL2000s and upgrade the CIWS all to 1130s, it still would not be enough to guarantee to keep those ships safe in the Straits, which is why I don't think the 071s will play that big of a role in the initial landings, and will instead either act as second wave mass carriers, or be sent out to the East of Taiwan empty (but obviously giving the impression that they are crammed full of elite troops) with an escort fleet to force Taiwan to direct resources to 'counter' them and weaken the defences on the western coast.
The 071s can be useful for a Taiwan scenario, but that was not the main reason the PLAN bought them.
The primary reasons for the PLAN to invest in those ships are to give it amphibious assault capabilities in the SCS and beyond.
In a SCS scenario, those 071s will be near on untouchable by any of the native forces in the region as is, more so for remotely likely operations even further afield, so no need to add so much more defensive weaponry.
The PLA, at is core is very practical, and always prefers efficiency over American-style overkill with little regard to equipment procurement decisions.
Yes, it will be lovely to be able to get the very best of everything every time, but even America cannot afford that sort of largess, and its bloated military spending habits are now become a serious and growing drag on its economy performance (America would have world class infrastructure if even a small fraction of its defence budget was instead used to upgrade its crumbling and neglected infrastructure over the decades).
In terms of the PLAN's thinking, for a nation at peace with near zero chance likelihood of needing to use those LPDs in real combat scenarios, what is the point in spending even a modest amount to upgrade those ships' defences now?
Crisis tend not to develop overnight, and if some unexpected conflict arose that would require those 071s to go into really dangerous waters, such a development will not likely happen overnight, nor will it be an overnight job for the PLA to assemble the kind of task force needed for such an operation and to weaken enemy defences enough that amphibious assault becomes a serious option.
That should give the PLAN plenty of time to upgrade its 071s with the latest CIWS defences at its numerous shipyards, have everything tested and certified long before the task force needs to set off.
In a Tawian scenario, even if you do add FL2000s and upgrade the CIWS all to 1130s, it still would not be enough to guarantee to keep those ships safe in the Straits, which is why I don't think the 071s will play that big of a role in the initial landings, and will instead either act as second wave mass carriers, or be sent out to the East of Taiwan empty (but obviously giving the impression that they are crammed full of elite troops) with an escort fleet to force Taiwan to direct resources to 'counter' them and weaken the defences on the western coast.
The 071s can be useful for a Taiwan scenario, but that was not the main reason the PLAN bought them.
The primary reasons for the PLAN to invest in those ships are to give it amphibious assault capabilities in the SCS and beyond.
In a SCS scenario, those 071s will be near on untouchable by any of the native forces in the region as is, more so for remotely likely operations even further afield, so no need to add so much more defensive weaponry.
The PLA, at is core is very practical, and always prefers efficiency over American-style overkill with little regard to equipment procurement decisions.
Yes, it will be lovely to be able to get the very best of everything every time, but even America cannot afford that sort of largess, and its bloated military spending habits are now become a serious and growing drag on its economy performance (America would have world class infrastructure if even a small fraction of its defence budget was instead used to upgrade its crumbling and neglected infrastructure over the decades).
In terms of the PLAN's thinking, for a nation at peace with near zero chance likelihood of needing to use those LPDs in real combat scenarios, what is the point in spending even a modest amount to upgrade those ships' defences now?
Crisis tend not to develop overnight, and if some unexpected conflict arose that would require those 071s to go into really dangerous waters, such a development will not likely happen overnight, nor will it be an overnight job for the PLA to assemble the kind of task force needed for such an operation and to weaken enemy defences enough that amphibious assault becomes a serious option.
That should give the PLAN plenty of time to upgrade its 071s with the latest CIWS defences at its numerous shipyards, have everything tested and certified long before the task force needs to set off.
nice discussion. i think this is only perspective 
, nothing wrong with the thought or effort to give the transport ship more or better defense system, this will always evolve by the time and technology development. and i believe this ship may get better upgrade in the future. but i believe there are some limitation based on the function and mission this ship was designed for. that's why another transport aircraft or vehicle not coming in so sophisticated weaponry/armament for defense. it is good if we can build and have distributed lethality fleet. while there is a budget reason, priority reason, its truly nothing wrong, because both reason have close correlation.
, nothing wrong with the thought or effort to give the transport ship more or better defense system, this will always evolve by the time and technology development. and i believe this ship may get better upgrade in the future. but i believe there are some limitation based on the function and mission this ship was designed for. that's why another transport aircraft or vehicle not coming in so sophisticated weaponry/armament for defense. it is good if we can build and have distributed lethality fleet. while there is a budget reason, priority reason, its truly nothing wrong, because both reason have close correlation.There is no "guarantee" of safety ever, so this is never going to be a reason to not send warships into a fight. With an HHQ-10 launcher and 2 Type 1130s, an upgraded 071 would have a CIWS suite that is superior to that of any PLAN warship except the Liaoning, so why would this be an inadequate self defense system, especially since literally no other amphibious ship is going to have that much self-defense. So what then, no amphibious forces at all the first go around? Those LSDs, LSTs, LSMs and civilian ships sure aren't going to have anything like what a 071 has. In any Taiwan invasion scenario, those 071s will be right in the thick of the very first landings, right alongside literally EVERYTHING else the PLAN can throw at the beaches. Every last thing. If a kitchen sink could knock out some Taiwanese pill boxes, they'd throw those in too.
A Taiwan invasion scenario is precisely what these ships were designed for, and both their timelines and their design totally makes sense in that context. Not only that, but that recent big fish article in another thread here confirms as much.
Nobody said anything about upgrading those ships now. In fact even if the PLAN knew it was going to war fairly soon I would not expect the 071s' CIWS systems to be upgraded before they were put to use. I wouldn't be surprised if they even waited until the 071s' midlife complex overhaul to install those upgrades, if at all.
Here are some comparisons to US Navy vessels.
Harpers Ferry Class LSD (similar to Type 071)
2 x 20mm Phalanx 20mm CIWS
2 x RAM Launchers (21 missiles each)
2 x 25mm autocannon chain guns
4 x .50 cal MG
San Antonio Class LPD (almost just like the Type 071)
2 x RAM launchers (21 Missiles each)
2 x 30mm Auto Cannons
2 x MK41 VLS launchers for ESSM Launchers (fitted for but not installed yet)
4 x .50 cal MG
US Navy Wasp Class LHD:
2 x 20 MM Phalanx CIWS
2 x RAM Missile Launchers (21 missiles ech)
2 x ESSM Missile Launchers (8 missiles each)
4 x 25mm Auto cannon chain guns
6 x .50 cal MG
So, adding the FN-3000L launchersd would seem to be something the Chinese could do to bring them up to standards of other Amphibious ships
What I would really like to see is if the 026 can carry a load of jeeps in 2 rows.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
China can put a man in space but not a jeep on the Type 726???
Running empty yet again !!
Gets to me why they kept doing this every time
Have they even load tested those LCAC in the Type 071 LPD ???
Running empty yet again !!
Gets to me why they kept doing this every time
Have they even load tested those LCAC in the Type 071 LPD ???