joshuatree
Captain
You've just raised another point that may be why people differ so much on the issue. You mentioned two torpedo rooms. But is it two rooms or one giant room with garage sized doors on the left and right?
056 class FFL/corvette
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You've just raised another point that may be why people differ so much on the issue. You mentioned two torpedo rooms. But is it two rooms or one giant room with garage sized doors on the left and right?
You've just raised another point that may be why people differ so much on the issue. You mentioned two torpedo rooms. But is it two rooms or one giant room with garage sized doors on the left and right?
People differ because they haven't gone through all the available pictures to find clues, here are two that shows the two rooms are separate and they barely extend beyond the torpedo hatches.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Different variants or change in design?
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Looks like a modification on the exhaust
Also i am sure we will see various modifications as time goes on as the platform matures
Also i am sure we will see various modifications as time goes on as the platform matures
Just change of design, I fully expect the ships already launched will be brought up to the current design. The changes (bow and stack) are mostly cosmetic and could be done anywhere with a few skilled welders and a metal fabrication shop.
joshuatree
Captain
Thanks for pointing out those pics. I had clearly missed or have never seen them before.
1) So it's confirmed, there are doors to those openings. I see what appears to be track guides for a door.
2) They are separate rooms since there's a clear shot of an inner wall.
3) The rooms don't extend the full length of that module which stops at the exhaust stack based on the construction pic. Still the rooms seem extra lengthy for torpedo launchers. If one looks at the side panel that opens for the launchers to swivel out, it's still deep far away the room's garage door that leads to the helipad. Guess it's a miscellaneous tool shed if you will.
Now I wonder what the middle portion between the two rooms is used for.
Mysterre
Banned Idiot
I fail to see how addressing and dismissing your arguments is equivalent to ignoring them, since I clearly see that you know and have acknowledged that I addressed all of these points by responding to my criticisms of them in your reply. So please tell me exactly how I “ignored” them. Or is this another straw man attack?
Again, just because you have made the argument doesn’t mean it’s true. And frankly, it’s just not even nearly true. IMO even if the ship were COMPLETELY missing the wall facing the helipad, there would be no structural issues. And it would expose the 4 lengthwise walls running down the ship in that section.
They are there. There are now photos to prove their existence, posted by hmmwv. What do you have to say now? Frankly arguing against them to start with was untenable IMO.
Speculation regarding a possible future variant of the 056 with a UAV hangar. I certainly did not and do not believe that this current iteration has either a UAV hangar or carries a UAV.
I know all about compromises. This is not the same as agreeing with your theories. You should recognize this.
Who said there would only be “one big door” in the middle? A 056 with a hangar or a UAV hangar would still have three openings in the rear, the two that we see now as well as a hangar door.
Who says I did not remember your claim? Your argument is that BOTH of those holes are windows for control stations, did you not? That is what I am responding to.
A control room that requires a window is used in landing operations. Now please explain why a ship that can land helicopters and UAV’s would somehow require a separate control room for each platform. We are not talking about a room designed to remote pilot a UAV. Such a room could be anywhere on the ship, and does not require a window. A control station exists for a person on the ‘ground’ to give additional landing instructions and cues to the pilot on a helo (or perhaps a UAV), so there Is no reason for them to need separate facilities to land helos and UAV’s. You are arguing for the sake of trying to find a NECESSARY reason to have two holes, thus excluding the possibility of a UAV hangar door that faces the helipad. This necessary reason does not exist, therefore there is no reason why a door should not exist there, had there been a UAV hangar at that location.
Other completed 056’s have shutters on those holes that look like they could be ventilation. Maybe you should take a look at them and familiarize yourself with the final product before you singlehandedly dismiss the idea. On the other hand, I cannot prove that they are not window shutters. On the other hand, it also seems strange to have a control room with shuttered windows, since we have never seen this before. They are usually wide open to give as unobstructed a view of the helipad as possible. Most of them even have windows that bulge out from the wall so that the guy at the control station can stick his head forward a little bit and look up past the ceiling. So yeah, the possibilities for what these holes are, are still open at this point. OTOH you seem already strongly committed to a particular one.
I don’t know what you’re talking about here, and no offense but I’m pretty sure that you don’t either.
Understanding the design choices they have made does not entail agreeing to your fanciful ideas about requiring double control stations. What it does entail is using the past as a guide for what is reasonable in the present. What is not reasonable in the present is double control stations for landing operations.
Who says these doors have to be closed all the time, or that the rolling of the garage doors would represent a significant impediment to personnel? If you look at similar openings in the back of ships that face the helipad (such as the 054/A), they are most often OPEN rather than closed. It is rare indeed to have a photo of a rear passageway with its garage door down. I think I have seen one such photo. However the internet is replete with photos where the doors are all the way up.
No. Just no. Before anyone could possibly believe such an outlandishly ridiculous idea, please go ahead and provide an example where multiple passageways were designed into a ship for the purpose of “rapid reloading of helos” on both sides at once. I find it amusing that you accuse me of “desperately reaching” on those holes when I actually have reasonable ideas based on photographic evidence, whereas this idea. Wow. Seriously?
First of all, what unusually large control room? You make this completely illogical and hitherto unseen-in-this-universe claim of a double-size control station, and from there go on to further speculate all kinds of fanciful ideas about UAV’s here and there. Fallacies based upon fallacies are not built on rock, they are built on sand.
I find this chest-thumping rather amusing coming from someone who in the very same post posits his own hastily concocted wild ideas like double control stations and multiple passageways for rapid helo reloading. And I have been asking for examples of these funny ideas. Where are they?
That drawing has now found validation in several of its features based on the photos hmmwv posted. If you had put the thought into the 056 like I did, perhaps you would not have had to do some of your desperate stretching to find ideas conducive to your claim of a UAV hangar on the 056.
Oh yeah, like the bridge is somehow less susceptible to battle damage. Good one. Also, being buried deep within a ship is somehow compatible with decreasing the length of cables to the weapons and sensors? Do you even think about this stuff before you post it? I mean these two claims are part of the same sentence even! Weapons and sensors are on top, so…. a CIC buried deep within the ship must mean a decrease in the length of the cabling needed to reach them compared to a CIC placed on top? Yeah…. no. Regarding ridiculous ideas, please take your own advise to “at the very least vet them in your mind before dumping them here first”.
I was even going to suggest rec room. LOL Would that have been even more fanciful for you? The point is we have no idea what that space is being used for, whether for a CIC, rec room, conference room, storage space, helo maintence, UAV hangar, sauna, swimming pool, tanning stations, manicure shop, or anything else. You seem to have a strong opinion that it involves helo and/or UAV operations, and I’m basically telling you that your strong opinion has zero basis in reality.
Wait, the helipad is unusually big for a ship of its size??? I see, so according to your logic that means a helicopter landing on smaller ships somehow requires less room to maneuver prior to landing. Because I have no idea what the hell your statement could mean otherwise. Maybe the helo pilots know that the laws of physics change with smaller ships such that the smaller your target, the easier it is to land on them. That’s why it makes no sense to have a proportionately larger helo pad in a smaller ship. The alternative theory of course, is that the laws of physics don’t actually change on smaller ships, and that the helipads on all ships need to maintain a certain minimum size to accommodate helicopter landings, and that the helipad on the 056 looks comparatively larger simply because it is a smaller ship.
Once again, I must ask you to STRONGLY consider taking your own advise to vet your ideas thoroughly before you put them in print.
I’m almost afraid to ask, but….. what loads would those be?
There is no hanger of any size on the 056. Nor is there a hangar of any size on the 056. I kid I kid. But seriously, you assume there is a hangar on the 056. Of course you would then assume that something would go into it, like a UAV. But you have failed to demonstrate that there is even a hangar in the first place. From my perspective, I see no hangar anywhere, nor any hangar doors, and therefore no need for any UAV’s. A UAV on the 056 would be useful, as a UAV would be on any ship. This does NOT mean that the 056 was designed to accommodate UAV’s. We have seen photos of the interior of hangars of the 054A and the 052C. There is no evidence they have room for any UAV in addition to the Ka-28’s. The fact that a 054A has been observed operating a UAV does mean this was part of the design. It could easily have had its helo removed prior to sailing out to make room for the UAV.
I do not accept your interpretations of these openings as representing hangars of any kind. And now we have photos clearly demonstrating no hangar. Those passageways end just forward of the torpedo launchers. Too bad for you, eh? But it’s definitely still got a double control room though, yeah?
Is it really pointless when a totally absurd claim is asked to be backed up? Multiple passageways for rapid reloading of helos on both sides is so grievously absurd that outside of actual photographic evidence proving the existence of such absurdity, I will have to decline to believe your claim.
See above for a perfect example of what I’m referring to.
We already went over that part. The fact is that 054A photo clearly shows they already need to be that wide. The photo by hmmwv clearly shows that beyond a thin lip to guide the garage doors, there is no reason to not believe what you see is about how wide you get. This point is so obviously clear that your obstinacy in refusing to accept the obvious here is clearly indicative of, oh, what was that word you were using, “pride”?
There is no need to move torpedoes from "racks or magazines" if there are no reloads on board the ship. I also did not say it had to be a helicopter depositing fresh rounds. Rather that the helipad is the reload location. In other words, a pierside crane could easily do the job of torpedo reloading. It's not like torpedoes are going to be used often on this ship. As I said before, torpedoes are a defensive last ditch weapon against an attacking sub. If you have to launch one, to speak nothing of three, your odds of survival in the first place are not good. And we can clearly see from the new construction photos now that the ONLY way to reload the launchers is from the helipad side.
Except that the LCS actually has a hangar door whereas this ship has… NONE. And no hangar either. Bummer, eh?
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Mysterre, how the hell did you find the time to write all those responses?
This ship does have hangar doors, but no hangar.
MwRYum
Major
Not just different funnel designs, the fore section looks different as well.
I wonder what good such different details of the same class...it's not like different flights, they're all Flight I for all concerns.
Mysterre
Banned Idiot
Sometimes I have alot of time. Sometimes I have very little time. It all depends.Mysterre, how the hell did you find the time to write all those responses?
By definition hangar doors open into a hangar, or else they would not be called hangar doors. More like garage-style doors, or steel curtain doors like these:
Looking at the large lip at the top of the openings on those 056's, one can easily imagine a door-rolling mechanism bolted in behind them, just like in this photo here. The benefit of these doors is that they can be electrically operated, and depending on the design could probably be opened and closed fairly quickly at the touch of a button.
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