056 class FFL/corvette

Mysterre said:

Are you referring to whether there are torpedo launchers on board or a TAS on board? I think we already have relatively strong photographic evidence for the former and definitive photographic evidence against the latter. I would really be interested in seeing that middle part of the ship sandwiched between the passageways going forward from the helipad. If that section of the ship houses anything other than tube-shaped storage receptacles for torpedo-sized objectives (like a conference room or mess hall or sleeping quarters or whatever), then the 056 will be unable to rearm any ASW helos that land. I'm thinking the passageways are actually already too narrow to push torps on rollers through them anyway.

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I'm actually refer to the interior, at the level where the helideck / gun deck is. Like all new generation warships 056 have no exposed walkway so if they let public to get onboard to see the ship, they'd need to allow the crowd to use the throughway to traverse from aft to fore (or vise versa), then there'd be chance to observe (or sneak a few pics) the interior. By the available pics now the torpedo hatch is at the same level as the helideck...that's the same layout as onboard the 054A, and on the 054A there're space at the left of the torpedo launcher that is adequate to conduct reload operation, so let's see if there's such on the 056.

TAS will be a different matter, not likely they'd open the deck below to visitors, only closeup shots taken from shores - it'll still far superior than what people able to get so far, if I might add.

Like I said, we'll find out by next May at the earliest.

MwRYum said:

TAS will be a different matter, not likely they'd open the deck below to visitors, only closeup shots taken from shores - it'll still far superior than what people able to get so far, if I might add.

Like I said, we'll find out by next May at the earliest.

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How about tonight?




At long last an avalanche of bull***t can now finally be buried with two last nails in the coffin, courtesy of page 28 of this very thread. These pics have been sitting there this whole time.

Mysterre said:

When did I ever deny that it was possible to add a hangar to a small vessel (assuming its displacement is increased)? I did not even deny it for the 056 itself, either on this page or any other page. I also have said earlier in this very thread that this ship would be a nice ASW ship if it (already) had a hangar/embarked helo and a TAS, neither of which it has regardless of how much diatribe wolfie puts out. I simply question your assumptions when you said all that was needed was to stretch the thing out and stick a hangar in. It's not that easy. You are also making these unequal comparisons between vessels that are pretty much like each other only in their sharing of the word "corvette". Yes, we all know that Chinese naval construction is capable of modular construction, but that does not mean it is capable of SIGMA-type modularity or that the 056 was built to have SIGMA-type modularity. And modularity also does not mean a given ship design has any flexibility built into it in terms of being able to increase its displacement lengthwise. We just don't know what the 056 design is able to do at this point. This is what I have been saying all along. This is why I said you are introducing a deus ex machina into the debate: fixing a problem (no room for a hangar) by positing the future existence of a larger variant that shazzam!.... has room for a hangar. You're essentially assuming this class is capable of a larger displacement "056B ASW variant". Maybe, maybe not. Nobody on this forum knows. Therefore once you propose it, nobody can reasonably debate it. We don't even know that the PLAN even wants a 056 with a larger displacement and a dedicated hangar.

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No one is saying that it's as easy as sticking a hangar on the hull and call it good, of course other modifications have to be made to make it possible, but I argue that this class is capable of becoming an ASW variant with larger displacement because we have already seen the Pattani class, that's essentially 056's ASW variant. The 056 design appears to be based on that ship, except a lowered bridge and deleted hangar, it's designed by the same institute (708th), so logically they can just reverse the design back to the Pattani configuration with a dedicated hangar. With that ship as the base line we don't even have to guesstimate how much displacement increase it requires. I agree with you though that it's unclear whether PLAN wants such vessel, or when are they going to acquire sufficient number of ASW helos to warrant corvettes with dedicated hangars.

Not close enough, besides comparing a ship that's still in its fitting out stage against when it's outfitted and into service. And let me assure you, when they parked the lead boat of the 056 corvette at Stonecutter Naval Base, and let visitors take closeup pics during openhouse event (my bet is as early as next Labor Day in 2013), there will be far more details than those pics currently available.

And a word from an observer: do you need any reminder who's tone and attitude sparked the whole pissing match several pages back? It's a wonder that the fat pilot haven't descend here to set things straight yet. But if you keep this up, that will change.

Gents you all need to read the forum rules and end this war of words and bring peace to this thread.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ann...-before-posting-important-please-read-20.html

The following posts will be deleted or edited;
Posts containing personal attack...
Meaningless arguments and inappropriate provocation of other members.
Any other posts that the moderators/administrator regard as inappropriate.

and

This is a place for professional discussion. Please do NOT get personal. Do not try to tempt your fellow member to behave nastily. We see quite well trough your attempts.

If a member is clearly just causing trouble, let moderators deal with him/her. Ignore all provocative posting, because it would only worsen the situation. For those who repeatedly violate the rules here, he/she will be banned.

F) Accounts established for the sole purpose of spamming, flaming, trolling and deliberately disrupting this forum will henceforth be banned immediately.

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Now we have a new member that is in clear violation of these rules..because he's new and perhaps has not read the rules I'm giving him a three day holiday to read each and every word.

bd popeye super moderator

My two cents worth

I think this ship may be meant to be used in conjuction with other ships. If the round hole in the stern in a port for a TAS then this makes sense. I cannot rule out that it is an OPV, or light corvette. If (it is just my guess) it is to be used near the Chinese mainland, then it could provide a spot for land based helicopters, possibly refuel them, give the crew a rest and allow the time on station to be improved. The downside in adding a heli pad is pretty minor, but it allows a lot of flexibility. Even for little things like taking off sick crew members, taking on stores.

If (and it is my guess) it is to be used in conjuction with several other ships, then it could be on the flanks of a fleet, trailing a TAS to ensure that the area around the ship is free from subs. Being small it is almost expendable, by that I mean if the commander of a fleet had to choose one of his ships to get sunk, then he would go for the smallest. So having a small ship on either side of the main force, looking out for enemey subs, ships and planes.

When chasing subs, generally several ships are used. Thus having 2 or 3 of these ships in addition to the main force, looking for the subs is going to be a large benefit.

I think they are nice ships.

As to having a hangar. I think this is unlikely. Not many corvettes under 1500t have hangars, technically possible, but hard to do. Generally frigates that have a hangar are larger, and this ship would need to be more than just lenghtened. Not saying that it is impossible, just unlikely. It coming years maybe China will build a 2500t frigate, and that will have a heli and a hangar. However it is a nice design, the helipad does not add great weight, cost, or complexity to the design, but adds a lot of flexibility. Thus for relatively small downside, there is a lot of upside. It may just be used to refuel a heli from another ship, increasing the combat radius of the heli, or refuel a land based heli, also making the land based helicopters job a lot easier.

My guess is that they will make more than 30 of these, just my guess, not based on fact.

peterAustralia said:

As to having a hangar. I think this is unlikely.

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I agree, though the 056 is about the same dimensions of the Sa'ar 5 class which does have a hangar, it would be trying to do too many things for a ship of this size. I think that's been one of the criticisms of the Sa'ar 5. The helipad on the 056 is more of a moving springboard for land based or larger ship based helos. The mini-hangar could potentially house a S-100 Camcopter for non ASW operations. Maybe two? The Braunschweig class has this layout.

In the general purpose layout that we see right now, I envision the 056 to mostly conduct patrols not far from Chinese coasts, Spratlys being probably the farthest. This can be done with a single ship or working with others in a flotilla much like the current four CMS ships are doing.

I think eventually there will be an ASW version. There are still a ton of 037 sub chasers needing replacement if I understand correctly. If there is a surface ASROC system in development based on the sub version Jeff Head's article mentioned, I see this perhaps being placed where the anti-ship missiles currently are. Or maybe a slight extension of the hull so there would be more room where the anti-ship missiles are which can then also accommodate ASROC alongside. The much debated port hole in the back will be relocated so a TAS can be installed. But still the same helipad with no hangar.

I do think they could have placed two FL-3000N in the current back location, one port side, one starboard side to provide near 360 coverage.

Since nobody seems to have noticed my response to a request for a breakdown of the entire Hong Kong garrison in the thread related to President Hu Jintao's visit to Hong Kong, I repost it here:

The Hong Kong Garrison has the following components:

Hong Kong Brigade

had six battalions, of which 1 Bn equipped with ZSL93, 2 Bn with ZSL92B

(it may not be generally known, but PLA infantry, armoured, artillery and air defence brigades all have or will have six line battalions each).

As reported by MwRYum, there have been a series of upgrades since 2010, including the formation of a special operations battalion, an armoured battalion, an engineer battalion and an air defence battalion.

In 2012 ZSL92 (ex 54 Bde Tibet) were acquired for 3 Bn. I suppose this is the armoured battalion referred to (though it should probably have been ”armoured infantry battalion”). The special operations battalion is probably one of the former infantry battalions.

The air defence battalion is evidently equipped with HQ-6D and LD-2000 (truck-mounted 730).

Hong Kong Signals Regiment

Hong Kong Helicopter Regiment, based at Shek Kong (where the parade for Hu Jintao took place), has
Z-8KH 6301, 6302, 6303, 6304
Z-9 6004, 6005, 6006, 6007, 6009, 6100, 6101, 6201, 6202, 6203, 6204, 6205, 6206, 6207

Hong Kong Ship Squadron is based at Stonecutters Island, with a further base at Shenzhen-Shekou
(22 30 41 N 113 51 46 E) and has

Type 037 II HOUJIAN class missile boats 770-774
Type 026H patrol boats 7357-7360
Type 074 YUHAI class landing ships 7593-7595

In each of the years 2012 and 2013, the squadron will acquires two Type 056 corvettes, starting with 596 HUIZHOU (plus 597-599?). It is confirmed that they have ASW torpedoes. I expect them to replace the HOUJIAN class.

very good information there Franco-Russe, thanks for that!

I'd say two corvettes is the maximum they will actually deploy to Hong Kong, the other two will remain in Shenzhen and rotate to Hong Kong.