056 class FFL/corvette

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Iron Man

Major
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Anyway your number are a bit off Submarine speed is rarely goes above 30 knot=0.92km/sec and the rocket speed is not Mach 0.85 but Mach 0.95=(1163km/hr)/60=19.5km/sec So distance of 50km can be reached in 2-1/2 sec. So the submarine move about 2.3km which standard range of torpedo with 50 knot speed and 1 hr endurance
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the first generation missile, CY-1 some years ago, but this analysis observes that CY-1 “obviously could not meet the Chinese Navy’s requirements.” The article does not claim definitive information on the characteristics of the Yu-8, but offers the following projections. The missile is expected to be about five meters in length, and to weigh less than 700 kilograms. The range is said to be approximately thirty kilometers at a speed of Mach .9 to .95. The torpedo part of the weapon is estimated to be 324 millimeters in width and capable of detection (both passive and active) over 1.1 to 2.5 kilometers.
Oh, a submarine "rarely" goes above 30 knots? You know this, how exactly? Because you're a nuke sub expert? Alfas were well known to have burst speeds of >40 knots, BTW. In any case, by way of an example the USS San Francisco was routinely transiting the Pacific Ocean well in excess of 30 knots when it collided with a seamount. This was not a drill, not a high speed test, not an evasion from a detector. These subs normally transit open oceans at max speed or near max speed simply because they can. Fuel is not an issue, and out in the open ocean during peacetime, detection and tracking is not an issue. The sub collided with a known underwater feature due to the incompetence of its crew and the proper punishments were meted out, but the point is that the claim that subs rarely go above 30 knots is categorically false.

So anyway, according to your math, mach 0.95 is apparently "1163km/hr=19.km/sec" with 50km being reached in "2-1/2sec". ROFLMAO clearly you forgot or conveniently dropped an additional 60 in your conversion. The ACTUAL speed in m/s of a mach 0.95 weapon is 323 m/s, meaning it takes 2 minutes and 35 seconds to reach 50km, in which time a sub will have traveled 2.32km. The search range of a Yu-8 is apparently 2.5km which means the sub is already near the edge of the torpedo's detection range when it gets dropped into the water, and if the torpedo's seeker doesn't acquire the submarine within ~11 seconds the torpedo will not be able to acquire the submarine at all. I'm not saying it's impossible, but this is certainly not the ideal situation to put a torpedo in for it to do its job. Far better is the instant drop from a helo right on top of the sub being detected, so that the chance the sub can evade the attack is about as close to zero as you can get.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Have you ever been in the kitchen and boil water for tea It also take a while for boiler to heat up tea
The same with reactor there is a lag It cannot go instantaneously from standard speed to 35 knot in a instance.
In the meantime the seeker in the torpedo is activated and the rocket fire off you go to chase the sub

Another thing the control valve in the main steam turbine is limited to 110 to 120% of maximum capacity So you cannot go from say 25 knot normal speed to 45 knot if you size your valve for 45 knot than you cannot control it well for normal speed of 25 knot!

Another thing when sub know that Heli is hovering above it They stand still and not move
 
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Tam

Brigadier
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It give flexibility to hunt the sub in conjunction with Z9C. Z9C is too small it can only carry single torpedo Having it data link with the ship allow Z9C to hunt the sub without carrying torpedo .And once it find the sub. Then Z9c can give the order to the ship to fire the torpedo. that way it shorten the sub reaction time and lessen the change that the sub can run away. And increase the loitering time

View attachment 45199

Yu-10 seems like a pretty good reason why the 054B may retain these canisters and still use H/AJK-16 with the Yu-8.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Have you ever been in the kitchen and boil water for tea It also take a while for boiler to heat up tea
The same with reactor there is a lag It cannot go instantaneously from standard speed to 35 knot in a instance.
In the meantime the seeker in the torpedo is activated and the rocket fire off you go to chase the sub

Another thing the control valve in the main steam turbine is limited to 110 to 120% of maximum capacity So you cannot go from say 25 knot normal speed to 45 knot if you size your valve for 45 knot than you cannot control it well for normal speed of 25 knot!

Another thing when sub know that Heli is hovering above it They stand still and not move
Neither can the torpedo go from 0 knots to 50 knots instantaneously, while the sub is already traveling at speed, and possibly at maximum speed given it has already heard the pings from the sonobuoy before the sonobuoy can even acquire the sub. BTW, standing still next to a sonobuoy is like playing dead before a bear. Both WILL get you killed. Just because you are not moving doesn't mean the sonobuoy won't see you, especially since the ones helos use are likely to be active rather than passive.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
And going to max speed will get you killed too because the helicopter will hear the sound of propeller and get fixed on your location BTW Yu 8 is data link too !
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
And going to max speed will get you killed too because the helicopter will hear the sound of propeller and get fixed on your location BTW Yu 8 is data link too !
Nope. There is a saying that a Seawolf is quieter at max speed than an LA sub is at pierside, so there is no way in hell they're NOT going to max speed immediately upon detecting a sonobuoy going into the water nearby.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Nope. There is a saying that a Seawolf is quieter at max speed than an LA sub is at pierside, so there is no way in hell they're NOT going to max speed immediately upon detecting a sonobuoy going into the water nearby.

Now you become Fanboi here nothing more to say believe whatever you want to believe!
If it rotate it will create cavitation no matter how good is the propeller That is just Physics!
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Anyway your number are a bit off Submarine speed is rarely goes above 30 knot=0.92km/sec and the rocket speed is not Mach 0.85 but Mach 0.95=(1163km/hr)/60=19.5km/sec So distance of 50km can be reached in 2-1/2 sec. So the submarine move about 2.3km which standard range of torpedo with 50 knot speed and 1 hr endurance
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the first generation missile, CY-1 some years ago, but this analysis observes that CY-1 “obviously could not meet the Chinese Navy’s requirements.” The article does not claim definitive information on the characteristics of the Yu-8, but offers the following projections. The missile is expected to be about five meters in length, and to weigh less than 700 kilograms. The range is said to be approximately thirty kilometers at a speed of Mach .9 to .95. The torpedo part of the weapon is estimated to be 324 millimeters in width and capable of detection (both passive and active) over 1.1 to 2.5 kilometers.

Ohio class sub
Type:
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(hull design SCB-304)
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Length: 560 ft (170 m)
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Beam: 42 ft (13 m)
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Draft: 35.5 ft (10.8 m) maximum
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Propulsion:

Speed:



    • 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph) submerged (official)
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    • 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph) submerged (reported)
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Not sure if your post about the Shkval and this one which seems to be about the Yu-8 are related? They seem conflated and is only tangentially related to the Type 056.

The Yu-8 is basically analogous to VL-ASROC with more range, not sure what all the fuss is about! Once sonar identifies and locates the sub, the missile is fired into it's path, it's approach is undetected by the sub as it's flying and even if the sub 'heard' the launch it won't be able to tell if it's a Yu-8 or some other missile, therefore the sub, won't be betraying itself by going flank speed. Once the Yu-8's torpedo portion makes splash down (hopefully on top of the sub!) it's down to how deep the sub is and how quickly the sub captain reacts (depth conferring greater reaction time since the torpedo is always coming from the surface) as to whether it survives (usual mix of hiding, decoys or simply trying to out run the torpedo) vs a lucky shot the torpedo ends up very close to the sub and is hidden in the baffles which will pretty much seals the sub's fate. Whether the Type 056 has the Yu-8 or a similar slant launched system, tactically it operates in the same manner.

The Type 056 only has a helipad so won't always have a helicopter (cue Iron Man on how the type 056 should have had a hangar :) ) so the Yu-8 or similar system confers it a stand-off sub attack capability.

The Shkval on the other hand will be heard as soon as it splashes into the water and fires up, it doesn't do Mach 0.95 rather maxes out at ~200 knots and I believe is intended to arm subs not aircraft or surface vessels. Basically it can be used to "out draw" the opposition in a shoot out, sub launches wired guided torpedoes, is detected, opposition sub counters by launching Shkval to take it out before the torpedoes arrives, using its 4x speed advantage and shouting about it to deter the other sub!

Finally there's little need to quote National Interest all their articles come from the same viewpoint(s) "foreign weapons are crap and the US will obliterate all foes" or "foreign weapons copied from the US means the need to spend more defence dollars to continue to obliterate our foes" which is why its radio silence on the Chinese EM gun at the moment because it breaks the narrative(s), not saying it's a sputnik moment, but certainly a wake up and smell the coffee one!
 
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