055 Large Destroyer Thread II

[Biscuits]

It's a fantasy, but like any good fantasy it should be somewhat grounded in reality. Hence the question, how would one make such a ship work? I do hope and, to a certain extent, assume, that as PLAN continues to mature and fill the bathtub we see more niche and unique capabilities emerge. Type 076, for example, is interesting because it seems to lack a clear western analogue. Conversely, while platforms like Z-20 and KJ-600 are undoubtedly very important, they are also uninteresting.

This stirred some memories and I am gratified to discover that my 2013 thread

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

is still accessible on what is now an almost defunct forum.

I think at this point, China is holding 2 different naval doctrines.

The first is the one it would use to halt an American attack in Asia. This is centered around 055, 052D, 054A/B and SSKs and is essentially somewhat similar to JSMDF lineup. It is a defensive fleet meant to have stopping power against a larger opponent that operates many nuclear subs.

At the same time, China is also learning how to fight US navy style using SSNs, 055s and supercarriers. With the 3 CVs, 8 055s, new 093Bs and 075s, the PLAN of today can if it wanted to fight as "little Americans". This could be used for example if Australia unilaterally performs aggression against small island nations, against the Indian navy, or to just project power into the Middle East.

 

[by78]

107 Zunyi (遵义). This is the first video/imagery evidence I've seen that conclusively confirms it's in service.

Finally, a nice actual photograph of 107 Zunyi.

 

[TK3600]

I'm still holding out for a limited-run (say ~6 ships), nuclear-powered, Sino-Kirov. But realistically one must ask what such a vessel could do that could not be better accomplished by two 055s. Beyond the symbolic power of such a vessel, I think the most compelling case is shore bombardment and land attack roles, where the additional volume could be very useful to support e.g. multiple railguns, large volume hypersonic weapons, etc.

(ASW Aviation is another obvious contender for scaling significantly larger than 055 and I do think there's a case for PLAN to invest in a Hyuga-type vessel, but that is a very different proposition.)

Why Kirov? HHQ-9 is equivalent of S-300 it uses. YJ-21's range can be compared to P-400. Best part it is a small package in 10k ton and you have 8 of them. 055 is what Kirov wish it was.

 

[by78]

All 055 are in active service.

What's your source for this?

055 from Nanchang to Yan An have been delivered to the Navy, with videos of ceremony. Then we have seen photos from various naval exercise. Unless you have sources to prove otherwise.

Let's try this again. What's your source, whether it be an image or video or news article, for the commissioning of the 7th and 8th unit, most especially the 8th unit? You made the claim that they are all in service. The burden of proof is on you, not on me.

Your original claim (made on November 1st, 2022) was demonstrably false. Below is a screen capture from a CCTV report about a visit to carrier Shandong just before the Chinese New Year, which was less than two weeks ago. There is a Type 055 on the left side of the image (circled in red). Notice that it has no hull number painted, meaning it had not entered service as of earlier this month. So no, contrary to your claim, not all 055s had entered service as of November 1st, 2022.

 

[LCR34]

Your original claim (made on November 1st, 2022) was demonstrably false. Below is a screen capture from a CCTV report about a visit to carrier Shandong just before the Chinese New Year, which was less than two weeks ago. There is a Type 055 on the left side of the image (circled in red). Notice that it has no hull number painted, meaning it had not entered service as of earlier this month. So no, contrary to your claim, not all 055s had entered service as of November 1st, 2022.

Just checked my source, says 下水。So launched.

 

[by78]

Just checked my source, says 下水。So launched.

I assume you understand the difference between "launched" and "in active service". When what you write is a speculation, please make it clear that you're merely speculating.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Why Kirov? HHQ-9 is equivalent of S-300 it uses. YJ-21's range can be compared to P-400. Best part it is a small package in 10k ton and you have 8 of them. 055 is what Kirov wish it was.

Comparing Kirov class as was first laid down almost 50 years ago(first VLS combatant laid down!) with shiny new 055 is dishonest in this sense. 2020s combatant of this size and price would've looked different.

But the overall point stands, Kirov makes little sense for any navy sans Soviet/Russian one*.
*technically speaking, probably would work for the Brits and especially French, but neither will ever be able or crazy enough to fill the bill.

 

[test1979]

Comparing Kirov class as was first laid down almost 50 years ago(first VLS combatant laid down!) with shiny new 055 is dishonest in this sense. 2020s combatant of this size and price would've looked different.

But the overall point stands, Kirov makes little sense for any navy sans Soviet/Russian one*.
*technically speaking, probably would work for the Brits and especially French, but neither will ever be able or crazy enough to fill the bill.

The Kirov was too large and expensive even for the USSR, hence the cheaper Glorious class emerged. In fact, according to POP3, the design of 055 also reached 20,000 tons at the beginning, and then this plan was immediately rejected by the Navy.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

The Kirov was too large and expensive even for the USSR, hence the cheaper Glorious class emerged. In fact, according to POP3, the design of 055 also reached 20,000 tons at the beginning, and then this plan was immediately rejected by the Navy.

I wonder how did the designers of the 055 managed to reach 20000 tons in the first place? The 052Ds are only 7500 tons at full displacement.

Did they initially intend for the 055 to become China's own Kirov/Lider-class large cruiser/battlecruiser, before the PLAN command shot that prospect down in favor of a large destroyer/cruiser-based 055?

 

[test1979]

I wonder how did the designers of the 055 managed to reach 20000 tons in the first place? The 052Ds are only 7500 tons at full displacement.

Did they initially intend for the 055 to become China's own Kirov/Lider, before the PLAN command shot that prospect down in favor of a large destroyer/cruiser-based 055?

The plans given by the designers seem consistently ambitious, with the navy acting as the brakes. For example, POP3 said that the initial design of 075 reached 50,000 tons and 38 helicopters. In the end, the Navy dropped the data to 36,000 tons and 28 helicopters.