055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Lethe]

ASW is about denying submarines space and opportunity to eliminate HVUs. This is most effectively achieved by maximising the number of sensor nodes and modalities and the coordination between them. You don't do that with a handful of gold-plated cruisers that are tempting targets in and of themselves, you do it with large numbers of affordable frigates that collectively work to close down space.

055 has two helos and that is indeed a great asset for ASW, but PLAN could build a blue-water frigate half the size and probably less than half the cost of 055 with two helos they wanted to. And personally I think they should.

 

[Maikeru]

This is just silly. ASW is about denying submarines space and opportunity to eliminate HVUs. This is most effectively achieved by maximising the number of sensor nodes and modalities and the coordination between them. You don't do that with gold-plated cruisers that are tempting targets in and of themselves, you do it with large numbers of affordable frigates that collectively work to close down space in ways that a handful of gold-plated cruisers cannot.

055 has two helos and that is indeed a great asset, but you could build a blue-water frigate half the size and less than half the cost of 055 with two helos if ASW was the overriding priority. And indeed I have previously argued the case for such a vessel.

Oh I agree! Just pointing out that the 055 does have substantial ASW capabilities if required.

 

[Lethe]

Oh I agree! Just pointing out that the 055 does have substantial ASW capabilities if required

Yes I apologise, I removed the emotive part of my post and revised.

 

[AndrewS]

I think 055 has a much larger and more powerful bow sonar. Also, it can launch ASROCs from its VLS. But yes, 2 helos is better than 1.

If you look at pictures of an Arleigh Burke bow sonar, you can see that it would still fit a Frigate. In any case, bow sonars are secondary to the VDS and towed array these days.

The Type-054A also has ASROCs (VL torpedoes as I called them)

 

[5unrise]

Not really

Frigates can use the same Bow Sonars, Towed Arrays, Variable Depth Sonars and ASW torpedo tubes
The Type-054 Frigate also has ASW rockets and VLS-launched ASW torpedoes
The biggest difference is that the Type-054 has 1 helicopter versus 2 for the Type-055

I agree that the frigates and corvettes are more cost effective and more expendable assets for ASW patrols.
If you don't mind me nitpicking a bit: if I recall correctly, about a third of the Type 54A currently in service do not have TASS, and of the remainder, they do not have VDS although they do have TASS. That said, I don't know how up to date that info is, so maybe VDS has been installed.

 

[AndrewS]

ASW is about denying submarines space and opportunity to eliminate HVUs. This is most effectively achieved by maximising the number of sensor nodes and modalities and the coordination between them. You don't do that with a handful of gold-plated cruisers that are tempting targets in and of themselves, you do it with large numbers of affordable frigates that collectively work to close down space.

055 has two helos and that is indeed a great asset for ASW, but PLAN could build a blue-water frigate half the size and probably less than half the cost of 055 with two helos they wanted to. And personally I think they should.

A ship half the size of the Type-055 is actually a Type-052D destroyer hull

It also happens to be about half the cost and have half the VLS cells. But you would have to add another helicopter somehow.

 

[Blitzo]

I agree that the frigates and corvettes are more cost effective and more expendable assets for ASW patrols.
If you don't mind me nitpicking a bit: if I recall correctly, about a third of the Type 54A currently in service do not have TASS, and of the remainder, they do not have VDS although they do have TASS. That said, I don't know how up to date that info is, so maybe VDS has been installed.

I believe all 054As have towed sonar; 054As prior to the 17th hull lack VDS however.

This comparison of 055 versus 054A in terms of direct organic ASW capabilities is also somewhat moot to the original question posed because no one was suggesting the 055s direct role would be conducting ASW itself in the hypothetical SAG (though of course it could do so in a capable way if it was asked).

At this point people are talking about general characteristics of ASW surface combatants rather than addressing the original question, the answer which should have been a simple "yes, it is possible"

 

[szbd]

Not really

Frigates can use the same Bow Sonars, Towed Arrays, Variable Depth Sonars and ASW torpedo tubes
The Type-054 Frigate also has ASW rockets and VLS-launched ASW torpedoes
The biggest difference is that the Type-054 has 1 helicopter versus 2 for the Type-055

In reality, 055 has an insanely big bow sonar and 1 extra helicopter and the biggiest heli deck

 

[Blitzo]

Continue ASW discussion in that thread please

PLAN ASW Capability

They were successful because U-boots were virtually immobile while submerged, and has only one pitiful 88mm plus 1 or 2 20mm auto cannons and negligible reserve bouyant while surfaced. So the Uboat can barely hide, can’t run away, and can’t fight even a 700 ton pursuer derived from a whale...

www.sinodefenceforum.com

 

[by78]

A few high-resolution images.