055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Blitzo]

Hard to get a good view of the flat space between the rear hangar area and the presumed middle stack section. I wonder if there is enough space to put 8 of the new VLS modules there. Perhaps in a 2x4 configuration, with 2 modules stacked lengthwise going bow to stern and 4 stacked widthwise going port to starboard.

With these new photos it is now looking to be similar in layout to the 052D, just bigger. The rear mast will house some kind of early warning or volume search radar. The hangar is going to be about 2.5 decks high, with room for probably 2 helos. The next section going forward will house a bank of VLS modules. Then the stacks section. Then the deckhouse. Then the CIWS, the second bank of VLS modules, and the gun. I wonder if the deck is going to be 'clean'. If the height of the forward deck of that model ship means anything, perhaps it will end up being the height of the clean deck. This would require that the main gun be nested somewhat lower, though, to give some clearance to the CIWS.

I suspect the platform forward of the mock up is not indicative of the ship's actual deck, the main gun would sit far too high, and I don't know what kind of configuration would allow the main gun to be nestled lower.

The main deck probably sits one level down. (i.e. the 2nd level floor of the building, on which the deckhouse mockup sits atop of)

The CEAFAR has panels on the exterior surfaces. This mast looks more like it is trying to stealthify some internal rotating radar located where the bulbous part is.

I'm interested in what the two arrays below the bulbous top part are.

 

[Solaris]

I suspect the platform forward of the mock up is not indicative of the ship's actual deck, the main gun would sit far too high, and I don't know what kind of configuration would allow the main gun to be nestled lower.

This kind of configuration:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Blitzo]

Ah, I see.

That could shave of some height, however they will probably seek to retain a minimal gun-to-deck height so the gun barrel can depress sufficiently for close in targets. I'm not sure what that height and depression angle will be, however from eyeballing the mock up and the PJ38 gun, I think the height of the mock up platform is too high for PJ-38 to sit in a cradle that is not too deep to restrict depression angles but also not too high to restrict ciws line of fire.

 

[shen]

The CEAFAR has panels on the exterior surfaces. This mast looks more like it is trying to stealthify some internal rotating radar located where the bulbous part is.

There is this radar that has been testing on 892. Looks like it may fit inside the "lotus lantern". If that's the replacement for 382, the fixed rectangular array may be the replacement for 364.

 

[Solaris]

I'm not sure what that height and depression angle will be, however from eyeballing the mock up and the PJ38 gun, I think the height of the mock up platform is too high for PJ-38 to sit in a cradle that is not too deep to restrict depression angles but also not too high to restrict ciws line of fire.

That 052D CG I just put up pretty definitively demonstrates a CIWS can sit one deck up from a PJ38 that's slightly nested and get enough clearance to shoot straight ahead. I think the gun depression thing is a non-issue. Look at the red line and the barrel of the gun. It's almost 2 m above the deck. If you depress that barrel so that it's almost touching the deck and then swing the gun out to port or starboard, any shell coming out of that barrel is going to land less than a hundred meters away from the ship. Who even does that? This is a total non-issue.

 

[no_name]

Digging the look of that integrated mast.

Looks well sized to be fit on a frigate, and maybe a carrier or LHA as well, given its compact nature and likely shorter effective range.

Could it also replace the top mast on Liaoning and future ships? It doesn't look small compared to the carrier model further forward.

By the way those are great photos thanks to by87.

 

[no_name]

If you depress that barrel so that it's almost touching the deck and then swing the gun out to port or starboard, any shell coming out of that barrel is going to land less than a hundred meters away from the ship. Who even does that? This is a total non-issue.

And you don't really need to depress gun for any decent ship sized targets that are that close to your ship, unless it is a small boat in which case the CIWS may be more suitable.

 

[Blitzo]

That 052D CG I just put up pretty definitively demonstrates a CIWS can sit one deck up from a PJ38 that's slightly depressed and get enough clearance to shoot straight ahead.

Type 730 can fire at zero inclination given where PJ-38 sits, but I do not think it can depress down much at all.

I think the gun depression thing is a non-issue. Look at the red line and the barrel of the gun. It's almost 2 m above the deck. If you depress that barrel so that it's almost touching the deck and then swing the gun out to port or starboard, any shell coming out of that barrel is going to land less than a hundred meters away from the ship. Who even does that? This is a total non-issue.

I think most naval ships have sufficient depression space for close in targets out of principle. I agree that depression of the main gun may not be a significant issue, however I believe the depression angle of the ciws is something worth taking account of. 052D and a few other ships do have slightly obscured forward firing arcs due to the main gun, for surface targets, and while it might not be the end of the world (I think AShMs would tend to come in from the side given a ship's greater RCS at that angle), I'd prefer if a 13,000 ton combatant didn't have such an easy to solve limitation.


Those are my only reservations regarding the idea that the mock up platform is indicative of the deck. There is also a displacement issue, I suppose, in that if the platform does represent the deck height then we may be looking at a ship with lower topside height compared to if the deck height actually sits a level below the platform (which means lower topside and overall volume, meaning lower overall displacement -- but this is only if the ship's waterline to deck distance remains constant for both platform-deck scenarios)

As with every other discussion about 055's potential design choices, I think there are some things going for and against every possibility. That said, I cannot see a major benefit in having the deckhouse sit lower above the waterline apart from stability, but for a ship of this size?

 

[Blitzo]

And you don't really need to depress gun for any decent ship sized targets that are that close to your ship, unless it is a small boat in which case the CIWS may be more suitable.

Small boat swarming tactics was what I had in mind. Of course, a ship will have ciws, GPMGs for such roles as well, but I'd feel somewhat safer knowing my main DP gun could reliability pulverise anything in a close range (engines specifically, may not be reliably destroyed by ciws)

But again, this is not a significant issue to contend with, but just a reservation worth noting.

 

[Solaris]

And you don't really need to depress gun for any decent ship sized targets that are that close to your ship, unless it is a small boat in which case the CIWS may be more suitable.

Exactly. BTW, here it is in unequivocal detail:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Even if the beam at the level of the gun is still a little wider than the barrel when slewed directly to port or starboard, we are still only talking about a degree or 2 or more and a shell splash a few dozen meters further out.

Small boat swarming tactics was what I had in mind. Of course, a ship will have ciws, GPMGs for such roles as well, but I'd feel somewhat safer knowing my main DP gun could reliability pulverise anything in a close range (engines specifically, may not be reliably destroyed by ciws)

I think the main gun could take out your pirate engines at close range no problem. I think the CIWS could take out your pirate engines at close range no problem. I think HMG's could take out your pirate engines at close range no problem.