055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Figaro]

It's fair to say China still have things to learn about subs from Russia,they're still working on their new nuclear subs so we'll wait and see what they can do. But what make you think China needs Su-57's tech? It's not very stealthy (not even stealthy enough to require luneburg lens), not as good as J20 in supersonic maneuverability, and noticeably lacking in terms of avionics compare to other 5th gen fighters.

The biggest drawback to China's aviation industry is engines and they are catching up with the up coming ones. They're already ahead of Russia in terms of aerodynamic design and avionics. Russia did have a ton of experience, but their limit in buget is severely limiting their development. Su-57 is a great jet given what it costs, and I have no doubt Russia could make a better jet if they have the budget, but it is what it is.

Once the WS-15 comes along, then the aerospace gap between China and Russia will basically be closed. I really don't think China has anything to gain from them, besides the 3D TVC which was already provided in the Su-35 purchase (the Chinese TVC system shows a lot of Russian influence).

 

[Tam]

You're right. In particular, the ASW and nuclear submarine parts are still subpar and with a lot of gaps, partly also because of the secrecy around them.

But, here is the thing. PLAN's future is no longer something we can only find in a vision document or vision it in our imagination. It is literally taking shape in front of our eyes.

They already have refurbished/built two carriers. The third one, a completely indigenous 80k tons class flattop with EMALS, is under construction. The carrier-borne KJ-600 AWACS is under development; a stealth carrier fighter is to take the first flight in 2021. All the pieces for a modern carrier fleet are falling into place. No one seriously argues against that a nuclear-powered carrier will be forthcoming.

The pieces for ARGs are also taking shape, including 071 LPD, 075 LHD, 726 LCAC, navalized Z-10, Z-20, Z-18, Z-18L. They're not all in place or in the right quantities, but we've already seen them all in various stages.

The submarine portion is further behind, but we know they're coming even though they're shrouded in secrecy. We've seen the large-scale construction facility in Bohai shippyard. 095, 096, JL-3 are all under development.

The surface combatants are most visible: 054A/052D/055. Two Type-901 fast fleet supply ships are either in service or launched.

It'll probably take another decade or so before we see a complete and truly modern blue-water PLAN emerges. But we can already see the contours of the picture and there are no major barriers. Just a matter of time.

China should already know why US and Russian submarines are quieter. Its that obvious. The bigger the submarine, the more its components are isolated. Other than that, China has enough tools (supercomputer simulations,models in water tanks, etc,.) on their own to figure out quieter more efficient submarine shaped hydrodynamics and propeller designs.

As long as they are stuck with the 093 design, which is small in comparison with the latest Russian submarines, they are tying their hands in their back. I am inclined to think the 094 is quieter than the 093, because the larger ballistic submarine is better able to contain and isolate its noise. The issue I see with the 094 is that once it gets moving at higher speeds, it might get a bit hydrodynamically noisy. 096 needs to have a bigger beam and draught so you can minimize the hump and contain the missiles as much as possible within the hull alone. A huge hull will also add to the noise dampening properties.

No problem with the SSKs, the Yuan is among the larger SSKs ever built, only the Soryu is slightly bigger. Successor to the Yuan should look for a bigger sub. Biggest SSK ever is China's own Type 032 experimental sub, which is bigger than smaller nuclear submarines. That can also be a prototype for a future SSK.

Another thing is that China is leading, or at least, one of the world's leaders in battery development, with all that work going to NEVs. Why not throw some of that tech to the SSKs?

 

[Tyler]

Russia also has many great technologies such as:

Mi-26, An-225, Mig-31, TOS-2A, T-14 tank, FOAB,

China needs these technologies.

Should China buy more Su-35 or just crank out more J-16? Which plane is better now?

 

[FangYuan]

Should China buy more Su-35 or just crank out more J-16? Which plane is better now?

You are trolling.
ok. I still answered seriously
China will never buy another SU-35.

 

[by78]

Dalian update.

 

[by78]

Dalian update from July 12, 2020.

 

[Tam]

There used to be a 052DL at the end of that dock there. It can be future pennant 123 or 163. That ship has been moved to the side of the drydock, likely to make way to allow 121 Qiqihar, which you can see now has tugboat besides her, to get out into the harbor. Maybe ship 121 is finally going to her permanent home.

That 055 looks like she's getting ready for trials. Modules perpendicular to that 055 has been deliberately blurred out. Hmm. Could be more destroyers?

Other than that, the real estate in Dalian is having a construction boom.

 

[asif iqbal]

Good observations Tam

 

[Hadoren]

China should already know why US and Russian submarines are quieter. Its that obvious. The bigger the submarine, the more its components are isolated. Other than that, China has enough tools (supercomputer simulations,models in water tanks, etc,.) on their own to figure out quieter more efficient submarine shaped hydrodynamics and propeller designs.

As long as they are stuck with the 093 design, which is small in comparison with the latest Russian submarines, they are tying their hands in their back. I am inclined to think the 094 is quieter than the 093, because the larger ballistic submarine is better able to contain and isolate its noise. The issue I see with the 094 is that once it gets moving at higher speeds, it might get a bit hydrodynamically noisy. 096 needs to have a bigger beam and draught so you can minimize the hump and contain the missiles as much as possible within the hull alone. A huge hull will also add to the noise dampening properties.

No problem with the SSKs, the Yuan is among the larger SSKs ever built, only the Soryu is slightly bigger. Successor to the Yuan should look for a bigger sub. Biggest SSK ever is China's own Type 032 experimental sub, which is bigger than smaller nuclear submarines. That can also be a prototype for a future SSK.

Another thing is that China is leading, or at least, one of the world's leaders in battery development, with all that work going to NEVs. Why not throw some of that tech to the SSKs?

These diesel submarines, such as the Type 039A...my understanding is that these are quieter than nuclear submarines and have no problem with sound.

My understanding is that China's diesel submarines are just as much a threat to American ships as anti-ship missiles. After all, you can use satellites to detect the anti-ship missile launches.

Am I correct?

 

[Tam]

These diesel submarines, such as the Type 039A...my understanding is that these are quieter than nuclear submarines and have no problem with sound.

My understanding is that China's diesel submarines are just as much a threat to American ships as anti-ship missiles. After all, you can use satellites to detect the anti-ship missile launches.

Am I correct?

Yes, the SSKs might be more of a threat than the 093As. They are quieter as they are running only on electric motors, don't have the pumps and pipes to move the steam and all that. I wonder if they are making more of them.