055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
AndrewS said:
I considered that already.

You're looking at a range of say 500km? for a surface wave.

At 500km from mainland China - you would expect Chinese ships to still be covered by land-based AWACs - if they needed comms back to mainland China.

But the key thing is that you only need 1 antenna to support communications requirements.
So the other antenna would be for ESM or to detect Surface Wave Radar returns.
Click to expand...

Both the tall antenna at the rear are communication. They can be or should be used not just for communicating with the mainland but also with aircraft and ships far away with a long frequency. Old school communication, even dating back to WW2. This despite having high speed digital data communication available via satellite. Warships are highly redundant, they can use this if satellites are jammed or not available.

That kind of aerials does not look like ESM to me. If you want ESM, there are a pair of R2D2 shaped objects at the base of the 055 mast that are partly shrouded by a fence intended to reduce their radar signature. You see these objects with newer block of 052D, and is refitted on the 052C. They replaced the older cylindrical set of ESM that looked like automotive oil filters. The older set of ESM equipped older 052D and 052C before the 052C were refitted, and can also be seen on the 051B refit. Previous to that, these ESM replaced an older set of short cylindrical shaped ESM that was seen on the 052B, 051C and 051B. Both these R2D2 shaped and oil filter shaped ESM units are probably ESM intended for long range, even OTH, combat directional finding similar to the US COBLU and the Russian MINERAL ME2 which the Chinese also possess and copied into a similar system called Type 366-2.

366-2 in turn, you see this equipped as two globes, or spherical radomes, and they are seen on the funnel of the 054A, or as a pair underneath the Type 517M antenna on the 052C and D. Why the 052C and 052D need two sets of long range ESM I am not sure but in the 051B refit, only the cylindrical ESM is present and set near the ASMs. On the Sov refits, only the 366-2 spherical ESM is present, replacing the Mineral ME2.

The Liaoning also had this cylindrical ESM, which is then refitted to the R2D2 shaped ESM on March 2019. The Shandong, strangely, doesn't have any of these, maybe they have decided not to have this on the ship.

Type 055 also has Type 726-1 ESM or SJW-231, which is its export designation, on top of the mast. These half cylindrical objects you also see on the mast of the 052C, 052D, 056, 075, and on the side of the islands of Liaoning and Shandong. These are likely meant for directional finding, signal acquisition and analysis of higher frequencies, and can be used against the radar of antiship missiles for example, where the ESM unit will work with the 726-3 ECM and 726-4 decoy units.

Just below this ESM on top of the 055 mast, you see two sets of four fixed panels one smaller and one bigger. The smaller set is likely phase arrays for high speed digital communication, which can be an enabler for CEC, networked sensor fusion and such, similar to the US AN/USG-3. You see a set of these on the highest mast on the Shandong, just underneath the Type 382 Fregat style radar. This may let the 055 and the Shandong communicate digitally until line of sight is lost by earth curvature. The reason why these antennas are set so high is to enable as much range with direct line of sight possible between different ships before the earth curvature cut off. Recently starting early 2019, the Liaoning replaced one of its ESM for two pairs of these antennas, two set on each side of the island. The 075 looks to be getting such antenna, set right on the two shelves where the Type 726-1 ESM are sitting on, on top of the mast. These arrays can be used with digitally communicating with aircraft and helos, and the naval Z-20 having a blister bulge on its belly fits right into this.

I am not sure what the larger set of the four arrays are. Below these set, you then get the X-band radar.
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Tam said:
Both the tall antenna at the rear are communication. They can be or should be used not just for communicating with the mainland but also with aircraft and ships far away with a long frequency. Old school communication, even dating back to WW2. This despite having high speed digital data communication available via satellite. Warships are highly redundant, they can use this if satellites are jammed or not available.

That kind of aerials does not look like ESM to me. If you want ESM, there are a pair of R2D2 shaped objects at the base of the 055 mast that are partly shrouded by a fence intended to reduce their radar signature. You see these objects with newer block of 052D, and is refitted on the 052C. They replaced the older cylindrical set of ESM that looked like automotive oil filters. The older set of ESM equipped older 052D and 052C before the 052C were refitted, and can also be seen on the 051B refit. Previous to that, these ESM replaced an older set of short cylindrical shaped ESM that was seen on the 052B, 051C and 051B. Both these R2D2 shaped and oil filter shaped ESM units are probably ESM intended for long range, even OTH, combat directional finding similar to the US COBLU and the Russian MINERAL ME2 which the Chinese also possess and copied into a similar system called Type 366-2.

366-2 in turn, you see this equipped as two globes, or spherical radomes, and they are seen on the funnel of the 054A, or as a pair underneath the Type 517M antenna on the 052C and D. Why the 052C and 052D need two sets of long range ESM I am not sure but in the 051B refit, only the cylindrical ESM is present and set near the ASMs. On the Sov refits, only the 366-2 spherical ESM is present, replacing the Mineral ME2.

The Liaoning also had this cylindrical ESM, which is then refitted to the R2D2 shaped ESM on March 2019. The Shandong, strangely, doesn't have any of these, maybe they have decided not to have this on the ship.

Type 055 also has Type 726-1 ESM or SJW-231, which is its export designation, on top of the mast. These half cylindrical objects you also see on the mast of the 052C, 052D, 056, 075, and on the side of the islands of Liaoning and Shandong. These are likely meant for directional finding, signal acquisition and analysis of higher frequencies, and can be used against the radar of antiship missiles for example, where the ESM unit will work with the 726-3 ECM and 726-4 decoy units.

Just below this ESM on top of the 055 mast, you see two sets of four fixed panels one smaller and one bigger. The smaller set is likely phase arrays for high speed digital communication, which can be an enabler for CEC, networked sensor fusion and such, similar to the US AN/USG-3. You see a set of these on the highest mast on the Shandong, just underneath the Type 382 Fregat style radar. This may let the 055 and the Shandong communicate digitally until line of sight is lost by earth curvature. The reason why these antennas are set so high is to enable as much range with direct line of sight possible between different ships before the earth curvature cut off. Recently starting early 2019, the Liaoning replaced one of its ESM for two pairs of these antennas, two set on each side of the island. The 075 looks to be getting such antenna, set right on the two shelves where the Type 726-1 ESM are sitting on, on top of the mast. These arrays can be used with digitally communicating with aircraft and helos, and the naval Z-20 having a blister bulge on its belly fits right into this.

I am not sure what the larger set of the four arrays are. Below these set, you then get the X-band radar.
Click to expand...

So what length do you estimate those communications aerials to be?
And then what frequency would it work at?
And then what range does this have?
 
P

PikeCowboy

Junior Member
AndrewS said:
So going forward, I think it is the UK-US analogy which is more relevant.
The US simply sought to match the British Navy, and could extract concessions in its own sphere of influence, whilst the British Navy had global commitments.
And the US had a much larger economy, so it could always use the *threat* of an arms race if it didn't get what it wanted.
Click to expand...

far as I know the US and the UK never fought any naval battles correct me if Im wrong. They werent even used im a semi-competitive manner post WWII, actually not even post Washington treaty.
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
PikeCowboy said:
far as I know the US and the UK never fought any naval battles correct me if Im wrong. They werent even used im a semi-competitive manner post WWII, actually not even post Washington treaty.
Click to expand...

When US interests were at stake prior to WW1, the US did threaten the UK with military action.

See the Venezuela crisis as an example.

The Royal Navy was very clear in telling the British government to avoid war with the US at all costs, and accede to US requirements and accept a junior position.

The reasons were : the UK faced a bigger threat from Imperial Germany Navy which directly threatened the security of the British Isles, the US could threaten Canada over land, and the US economy could sustain a larger war machine.

That is a model China could follow to ensure a peaceful power transition.
 
by78

by78

General
Jiangnan shipyard from the air, taken in early April.

49830255958_4be8141f11_k.jpg


A magazine scan...
49830256568_7bd28217d7_h.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top