055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Iron Man]

The video clearly differentiated a GT from a generator and their specific roles though. And I can't see how a GT (type of engine) can be used as a generator, which is tasked to turn chemical energy (combustion process) into mechanical energy (rotating the connected drive shaft to the generator).

Nope. The only difference would be to connect the output shaft to a "Gearbox" instead of a "Generator", and you would have a GT engine. And regardless, you seem to be ignoring the plain fact that even your GT generator in this graphic is inputting air and outputting exhaust! Caught red-handed it seems?

 

[Blitzo]

The video clearly differentiated a GT from a generator and their specific roles though. And I can't see how a GT (type of engine) can be used as a generator, which is tasked to turn chemical energy (combustion process) into mechanical energy (rotating the connected drive shaft to the generator).

That part of the video shows a combined cycle power plant (steam+gas turbine).

On a naval ship using gas turbines for electrical generation, timestamp 1:38 is more reflective of the naval set up.


To explain this in a simplified form, on ships, a gas turbine is basically a turbofan in a box, and the drive shaft turned by the gas turbine can be applied in two ways.
1: it can be connected to a reduction gear and clutch (transmission) and used to drive the propulsion shafts of a ship, providing propulsion to the ship
2: it can be connected to an electrical generator, generating electricity for the ship.


In both applications, the gas turbines still run on the same principles, it is just what their drive shaft is connected to which is the difference, but what their drive shaft is connected to does not effect whether they need an inlet or outlet or not (in both applications they will need both)

 

[Tyloe]

That part of the video shows a combined cycle power plant (steam+gas turbine).

On a naval ship using gas turbines for electrical generation, timestamp 1:38 is more reflective of the naval set up.


To explain this in a simplified form, on ships, a gas turbine is basically a turbofan in a box, and the drive shaft turned by the gas turbine can be applied in two ways.
1: it can be connected to a reduction gear and clutch (transmission) and used to drive the propulsion shafts of a ship, providing propulsion to the ship
2: it can be connected to an electrical generator, generating electricity for the ship.


In both applications, the gas turbines still run on the same principles, it is just what their drive shaft is connected to which is the difference, but what their drive shaft is connected to does not effect whether they need an inlet or outlet or not (in both applications they will need both)

Watching from 1:35 when you mean "a naval ship using gas turbines for electrical generation" is it the application of a GT connected to an electric generator? Also is the GT by itself the engine, or makes up of GT+gearbox, or GT+generator?

Nope. The only difference would be to connect the output shaft to a "Gearbox" instead of a "Generator", and you would have a GT engine. And regardless, you seem to be ignoring the plain fact that even your GT generator in this graphic is inputting air and outputting exhaust! Caught red-handed it seems?

The generator is clearly connected to drive shafts and the only thing missing in this generalised diagram is the air intake vent connecting to the GT.

 

[Blitzo]

Watching from 1:35 when you mean "a naval ship using gas turbines for electrical generation" is it the application of a GT connected to an electric generator?

Yes.

Also is the GT by itself the engine, or makes up of GT+gearbox, or GT+generator?.

A gas turbine is basically a turbofan in a box with a drive shaft, as described in the video.

For naval applications, a gas turbine can have a drive shaft connected to a gearbox which in turn connects to a propulsion shaft for propulsion purposes, or it can be a gas turbine with a drive shaft connected to a generator for electricity generation, or in some other arrangements they can have alternative combinations.


But the key point is that for all of those applications, the gas turbine needs an inlet for air and an outlet for exhaust.

 

[Iron Man]

The generator is clearly connected to drive shafts and the only thing missing in this generalised diagram is the air intake vent connecting to the GT.

Not sure what you're arguing at this point, since your own graphic of a GT generator shows air going in and exhaust coming out, regardless of what the "drive shaft" is attached to.

Here is a cutaway of an Arleigh Burke. Note that the GT generator (red) requires intake and exhaust venting (yellow), just like the GT engine (orange).



Please stop arguing (for your own sake). It should be plain to anyone at this point that a GT regardless of whether it is being used as an engine or as a generator will require venting.

 

[latenlazy]

Not sure what you're arguing at this point, since your own graphic of a GT generator shows air going in and exhaust coming out, regardless of what the "drive shaft" is attached to.

Here is a cutaway of an Arleigh Burke. Note that the GT generator (red) requires intake and exhaust venting (yellow), just like the GT engine (orange).
View attachment 42417


Please stop arguing (for your own sake). It should be plain to anyone at this point that a GT regardless of whether it is being used as an engine or as a generator will require venting.

I think there's some confusion over what everyone is talking about here...Let me try to take a crack at it to see if we can all get on the same page. So, we're hearing right now that the 055 has 4 turbines powering 6 generators. Iron Man, are you saying there should be 6 intakes and exhausts for each of the generators or 4 intakes and exhausts for each of the turbines? If the latter, then I think you and Tyloe actually have the same understanding. If not, carry on.

 

[Iron Man]

I think there's some confusion over what everyone is talking about here...Let me try to take a crack at it to see if we can all get on the same page. So, we're hearing right now that the 055 has 4 turbines powering 6 generators. Iron Man, are you saying there should be 6 intakes and exhausts for each of the generators or 4 intakes and exhausts for each of the turbines? If the latter, then I think you and Tyloe actually have the same understanding. If not, carry on.

No, there are 4 GTs used as engines powering 2 gearboxes turning 2 shafts. There are also 6 GTs used as generators powering 6 alternators generating electricity. The 4 GTs used as engines are much larger and already have (mostly) identifiable intakes (downtakes) and exhausts (uptakes). The 6 smaller GTs used as generators will also require similar but smaller venting, and we will be seeing evidence of this on the 055 at some point.

 

[latenlazy]

No, there are 4 GTs used as engines powering 2 gearboxes turning 2 shafts. There are also 6 GTs used as generators powering 6 alternators generating electricity. The 4 GTs used as engines are much larger and already have (mostly) identifiable intakes (downtakes) and exhausts (uptakes). The 6 smaller GTs used as generators will also require similar but smaller venting, and we will be seeing evidence of this on the 055 at some point.

When you say venting, do you specifically mean for cooling systems to deal with heat? Because if that's what you're referring to, I don't wonder if they could simply go with a liquid cooling system instead of an air based one.

If, on the other hand, you mean the generators also create exhaust that must be vented, I have to ask where you think that exhaust is coming from, since as I understand it the 6 generators are just shaft with coils around them to generate electricity.

 

[Blitzo]

When you say venting, do you specifically mean for cooling systems to deal with heat? Because if that's what you're referring to, I don't wonder if they could simply go with a liquid cooling system instead of an air based one.

If, on the other hand, you mean the generators also create exhaust that must be vented, I have to ask where you think that exhaust is coming from, since as I understand it the 6 generators are just shaft with coils around them to generate electricity.

When he talks about the exhaust generated, I believe he is referring to the exhaust generated from the gas turbines hooked up to generators.


Putting it another way, however many gas turbines the 055 has (or any other ship for that matter), and no matter how they are hooked up, they all need inlets for air and outlets for their exhaust, no matter whether they're hooked up with transmission for propulsion or whether they're hooked up to a generator. The sheer fact that there is a gas turbine to begin with necessitates an inlet and an outlet.

 

[Iron Man]

When you say venting, you specifically mean for cooling systems to deal with heat right? Because if that's what you're referring to, I don't wonder if they could simply go with a liquid cooling system instead of an air based one.

When I refer to venting here I mean specifically the air that the GT uses to compress and burn with fuel resulting in output power, exhaust, and waste heat. But in actuality the same air intake that is used to power the GT would also be the same air intake that is used to cool the GT. If you're referring to exhaust cooling, that happens with a combined-cycle GT for the purpose of additional electricity generation, or possibly on warships for the purpose of reducing IR signature (or maybe both).

If, on the other hand, you mean the generators also create exhaust that must be vented, I have to ask where you think that exhaust is coming from, since as I understand it the 6 generators are just shaft with coils around them to generate electricity.

The generators themselves (I assume you mean the alternators) do not require air input nor do they generate exhaust. However, the GTs that power the alternators certainly do require air and produce exhaust.