055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Blitzo]

It does probably reduce RCS returns in some minimal fashion, but those other structures that look like far bigger and lower fruit to pick than enclosing anchoring equipment means to me that RCS improvements are even more "minimal" than I would otherwise give them credit for.

Well the five RCS reduction characteristics I described are meant to be taken together, and I've expressed my opinion that when put together those characteristics are put together I think they would produce a meaningful reduction in RCS compared to the other ship category without those measures. And of course, you think otherwise. Impasse.

The mast size on the Daring is huge compared to the others which is why it looks slightly less cluttered. These masts also pseudo-benefit from having a secondary mast to offload equipment and antennae. But like I said, it's all got to be up there somewhere. I don't see that this results in any net benefit in RCS reduction as far as mast is concerned.

I think both Daring and Horizon have very large masts, and given the size of their mast the amount of clutter is quite low.

Sorry, just don't see it. I could just put up more side-by-side photos and I'm guessing we'd still be claiming different things.

I imagine we would. I imagine over the last few hours you've also searched up pictures of these ships to look at them just like I did, but our way of interpreting their design features probably remain different.

 

[Iron Man]

Well the five RCS reduction characteristics I described are meant to be taken together, and I've expressed my opinion that when put together those characteristics are put together I think they would produce a meaningful reduction in RCS compared to the other ship category without those measures. And of course, you think otherwise. Impasse.

They may if taken in their entirety but like I said, there isn't any such ship now. And that is where we don't agree.

I think both Daring and Horizon have very large masts, and given the size of their mast the amount of clutter is quite low.

Right but then this is just perception of reduced clutter and not actually reduced clutter. And reduced clutter only matters as far as RCS reduction is concerned. If you take a piece of equipment off the main mast and put it on the weather deck (Aquitaine) or the secondary mast (all three of them), then you have achieved nothing of significance. The whole point of the debate is to ascertain whether the mast on any of these ships is providing a net RCS reduction compared to ships like the Burke, Sejong, and 052D by way of mast integration. Clearly they are not.

 

[antiterror13]

stil on and on ... goooosh ........................... just move on

 

[Blitzo]

They may if taken in their entirety but like I said, there isn't any such ship now. And that is where we don't agree.


Right but then this is just perception of reduced clutter and not actually reduced clutter. And reduced clutter only matters as far as RCS reduction is concerned. If you take a piece of equipment off the main mast and put it on the weather deck (Aquitaine) or the secondary mast (all three of them), then you have achieved nothing of significance. The whole point of the debate is to ascertain whether the mast on any of these ships is providing a net RCS reduction compared to ships like the Burke, Sejong, and 052D by way of mast integration. Clearly they are not.

I think we've both said our parts now. Obviously I disagree with the points in this reply that you'd expect given my preceding positions.
But I wouldn't want to continue frustrating antiterror.

 

[Jura The idiot]

wonder how you two

AFAIK the only ship that currently uses the IMAST is the Holland class OPV, which I have already mentioned.

... different.

see the BELH@RRA

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?
(mast/RCS reduction)

EDIT
by the way the more I search, the more I think ever-increasing "stealth" of warships IS a bust LOL

 

[antiterror13]

I think we've both said our parts now. Obviously I disagree with the points in this reply that you'd expect given my preceding positions.
But I wouldn't want to continue frustrating antiterror.

Thanks Blitzo ... some people just can't be convinced/explained .... so dont waste your precious time

 

[Iron Man]

wonder how you two



see the BELH@RRA

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

?
(mast/RCS reduction)

There isn't any mast integration going on with this ship, which usually refers to antenna being embedded into the mast so that they are flush, or in the case of whips actually run along the interior vertical face of the mast.

some people just can't be convinced/explained

Yes, I agree totally with this.

 

[Jura The idiot]

There isn't any mast integration going on with this ship, which usually refers to antenna being embedded into the mast so that they are flush, or in the case of whips actually run along the interior vertical face of the mast.

yeah I was looking at the whip antennas when your post popped up ...

Yes, I agree totally with this.

LOL
hope you're only in the middle of the battle

 

[Iron Man]

stil on and on ... goooosh ........................... just move on

You demand me to move on, but not Bltizo? Well it takes two to go "on and on", don't you know. Based on your recent statements you are obviously biased in favor of Bltizo's POV, so your demand here carries no weight at all with me. If you don't want to read what I have to write, just don't read it. If you only want to read stuff that you agree with, then a forum isn't the best place for you.

yeah I was looking at the whip antennas when your post popped up ...

LOL
hope you're only in the middle of the battle

Integrated masts like the IMAST and Zumwalt's deckhouse also house integrated IFF, VSR, horizon-search/illumination radar, navigation radar, communications antennae, ECM, ESM, and datalink(s). If the 055 has even a fraction of all that integrated into the mast, it will already be a job well done.

 

[Jura The idiot]

...


Integrated masts like the IMAST and Zumwalt's deckhouse also house integrated IFF, VSR, horizon-search/illumination radar, navigation radar, communications antennae, ECM, ESM, and datalink(s). If the 055 has even a fraction of all that integrated into the mast, it will already be a job well done.

OK just a general thought now:
I think in a not that distant future, (most of) the World Oceans will become 'digital battlefield' and both sides will have 'situational awareness' for example all around Philippines, like Sanya to Guam/Guam to Sanya any routes (I'm specific as we're discussing Zumwalts and Type 055 differences here, not because of warmongering or something) so I can't see why it should matter to reduce ships' RCS below let's say Burke/Type 052D level(s) ... please enlighten me
Iron Man
and
Bltizo

(now I'll go through specifics of what you've been posting here since yesterday evening (in my time zone