054B/new generation frigate

ACuriousPLAFan said:

....
Apparently, the present wishlish by the USN is as follows:
3x Arleigh Burke DDGs per year
4x Constellation FFGs per year
3x Virginia SSNs per year
1x Columbia SSBNs per year

Well, that's gonna take a good while to realise, if ever.

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Here is a more realistic budget scenario for the US navy:
2x Arleigh Burke DDGs
1x Constellation FFGs
2x Virginia SSNs
1x Columbia SSBNs
2x Logistics support ships
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8 total ships per year on average
But
there are 14 ships being retired. So there is a net loss of 6 ships per year.
At current rates of decline I expect the US navy to lose it's status as the world's largest navy (by tonnage) by 2032.

Gloire_bb said:

The 052D(L) itself is quite new and is in full production.
The likelihood that 054b will be a light destroyer under the disguise of a frigate IMHO is nil.

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052D or DL have been in production for sometime now. Surely each unit would cost less than the new 054B. Why not just keep on building 052D and eventually using them as frigates…

kickars said:

052D or DL have been in production for sometime now. Surely each unit would cost less than the new 054B. Why not just keep on building 052D and eventually using them as frigates…

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Once the 054B production has been serialized, its unit cost too will also come down.

Besides, considering that 054B is still smaller and less powerful than 052D in terms of dimension, displacement, armament, radar & computer systems etc, the unit cost difference between the two wouldn't justify completely giving up 054Bs for more 052Ds in the long run anyways.

Furthermore, the PLAN's doctrine regarding FFGs is rather different from the USN. While the US is looking forward to make the Constellations into essentially mini-Burkes that could go lone-wolf style, China is making sure that their 054A/Bs are always attached to larger surface combatants (052C/Ds and 055s) as proper warship groupings that would function in unison.

The PLAN has also evidently sticked with the low-mid-high 3 tier system for their surface combatant fleet, hence they are still building more 052Ds and 2nd batch of 055s. This system is working out quite well for the PLAN, so I don't think they are gonna switch to just low-high 2 tier system anytime soon.

kickars said:

052D or DL have been in production for sometime now. Surely each unit would cost less than the new 054B. Why not just keep on building 052D and eventually using them as frigates…

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There's operating cost to consider as well which is critical to any decision making. There is also future proofing and technical evolution.
If say PLAN only uses DDG and abandons FFG, one day they may find themselves 3 generations late to the game when they decide to built FFGs again.
Even the USN is going back to using FFGs again after regretting not following up past the OHP class and trying to experiment with littoral ships.

kwaigonegin said:

There's operating cost to consider as well which is critical to any decision making. There is also future proofing and technical evolution.
If say PLAN only uses DDG and abandons FFG, one day they may find themselves 3 generations late to the game when they decide to built FFGs again.
Even the USN is going back to using FFGs again after regretting not following up past the OHP class and trying to experiment with littoral ships.

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IDK if the US is the best example here. They're really moving from CG only to CG + DDG rather than CG + DDG + FFG. No matter how you classify American warships, it's more of a 1 class to 2 move than a 2 to 3 move.

dingyibvs said:

IDK if the US is the best example here. They're really moving from CG only to CG + DDG rather than CG + DDG + FFG. No matter how you classify American warships, it's more of a 1 class to 2 move than a 2 to 3 move.

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Constellation is no DDG. It is very specifically built to not be.

Gloire_bb said:

Constellation is no DDG. It is very specifically built to not be.

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Sure, you can classify it as DDG + FFG combo. I personally think the differentiation between them in modern navies is a bit too murky to really matter that much, but that's another topic of discussion.

dingyibvs said:

Sure, you can classify it as DDG + FFG combo. I personally think the differentiation between them in modern navies is a bit too murky to really matter that much, but that's another topic of discussion.

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It was going towards that, but ultimately (recently) the separation became qualitative and thus - very visible.

dingyibvs said:

Sure, you can classify it as DDG + FFG combo. I personally think the differentiation between them in modern navies is a bit too murky to really matter that much, but that's another topic of discussion.

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Classification of ships evolves with time as well. An FFG or DDG 30 years ago may not have the same specifications as one today. Both in terms of displacement and capabilities. Duties, for the most part, will still be the same (centered around CSGs) though there was a shift in the 1990s when OHP class slowly decommed and the Burkes did most of the heavy lifting as more came online.
I believe in the foreseeable future the Constellation class will work together with the Flt III burkes not too different than OHP and Spruance worked together in the 1980s at the height of the cold war and then the 90s. The USN is shifting towards a cold war-type strategic planning and orbat. The biggest difference is unlike the 1980s and 90s the USN will be w/o a dedicated cruiser classification however the Constellation class bridges the gap between a frigate and destroyer while the Burke Flt III is basically a cruiser anyway. At least that's what the Navy intends to replace the Tico's with.
The constellation class is almost the same size as the original burkes with 33% less complement. Though it is loosely based on the FREMM frigate it is however bigger and heavier. Certainly close to the size of a destroyer a generation or two before. If it proves to be a successful design, it may end up being built in large numbers as well like the Burkes. With stepped improvements over time.
Who is to say a hypothetical Flt III Constellation 20 years from now won't be about the size of a Burke today with less complement but similar firepower.

No updates from yard? Strange.