054B/new generation frigate

C

charles18

Junior Member
Registered Member
Tam said:
They need to slow down to use their own ship sonars. If they are going full speed you have to rely on your helicopters to use dipping sonars on positions ahead around the group. Burke use bow sonars and passive towed array sonars but lately some ships have upgraded to using active towed sonars (VDS by European lingo) whereas all of 052D, newer half of 054A and all of 056A come standard with VDS along with obligatory hull and passive towed sonars.
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Just because a ship must slow down to use its ASW sonars, having the ability to go fast ( 30 knots) is still a useful feature.

If the Type 052D - destroyer already has towed array sonar and variable depth sonar, then I see very little reason to give the Type 054B - frigate the ability to sustain 30 knots. It does not need to "run" with the carriers. The job of frigates, destroyers, and cruisers is to complement each other, not compete against each other.
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
charles18 said:
Just because a ship must slow down to use its ASW sonars, having the ability to go fast ( 30 knots) is still a useful feature.

If the Type 052D - destroyer already has towed array sonar and variable depth sonar, then I see very little reason to give the Type 054B - frigate the ability to sustain 30 knots. It does not need to "run" with the carriers. The job of frigates, destroyers, and cruisers is to complement each other, not compete against each other.
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The point is that a Frigate is supposed to be a low-cost complement to the Destroyers
 
C

charles18

Junior Member
Registered Member
AndrewS said:
The point is that a Frigate is supposed to be a low-cost complement to the Destroyers
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I agree a Frigate should be cheaper than a Destroyer and likewise a Destroyer should be cheaper than a Cruiser.
Maybe a frigate can do ASW and convoy escort, a destroyer can do ASW for the CBG, and a cruiser can do AAW?

I know convoy defense has not gotten much attention since the end of WW2. But in a WW3 scenario it's definitely coming back.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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lyman did an interesting post comparing Type 045 to Type 054B. I don't really care for the Type 045 part. However, if his information on 054B is close to accurate, then this is quite juicy details

1.雷达：

45型驱逐舰采用S波段桑普森（Sampson）双面有源相控阵雷达，探测距离400公里。还有一具L波段 S-1850M 单面旋转式无源相控阵搜索雷达辅助。

054B主雷达采用S波段旋转双面有源相控阵。雷达单面口径约3.5米，仅次于052D的4米和伯克3的4.2米。面积和性能远大于星座级的SPY-6(v3)，性能也优于伯克2A的SPY-1D。另外副桅杆还有一具X波段双面有源相控阵快反雷达
[酷]


054B的主雷达性能优于近20年前的桑普森雷达
[嘻嘻]
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So, Type 054B will be using dual faced radar of 3.5 m caliber? (length?). That's pretty big. I have no way of confirming that it's better than SPY-1D. Anyways, quite the large radar for a non dedicated air defense ship.

2.动力和吨位：

45型的综合电力系统包含两具WR-21中冷再加热燃气涡轮机组，总功率为43MW（57600马力）两具螺旋桨推进器分别由一个20MW级（27000马力）的推进用电动机直接驱动。除了主要燃气涡轮发电机之外，还配备两组2MW瓦锡兰12V200柴油发电机。

因动力不足，2022年4月首艘45型驱逐舰开始改造。动力系统改造方案：用3台功率3MW的MTU 4000vM53B柴油机替换现有的2台功率2MW瓦锡兰12V200柴油机。柴油发电机总功率增到9MW，全舰总功率增到52MW。

45型标准排水量5800吨，满载排水量7350吨。

054B采用世界领先的中压直流综合电力系统。原动机采用2台GT25000改进型燃气轮机，发电总功率42MW，2台辅助柴油发电机总功率12MW。2柴+2燃分为两个发电站前后布置。双轴推进，推进电机2×20兆瓦。

054B标准排水量约4200吨，正常排水量4900吨，满载排水量约5600吨
[并不简单]


054B的中压直流综合电力系统完爆45型的中压交流综合电力系统。054B的推进功率跟45型相同，18节巡航时可不开燃气轮机。发电功率大于改造后的45型，为以后的能量武器上舰留有充足的余量
[酷]
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propulsion detail here is quite interesting. Full displacement of 5600t and regular displacement of 4900t. It uses Medium voltage Direct current IEPS. That sounds advanced, but I have no idea how advanced it is. This does make me think that the next batch of 055 will be using IEPS. Says they can reach 18knots without turning on gas turbine.

If this is all true, then the implication is that 054B has a lot of room to grow in the future into a larger ship. With more powerful gas turbine in the future, they should be able to generate even more power. That would allow for 054B to get stretched (in like a 054C) to over 6000t and fully replace 052C/D. And the top speed with a lot higher than the 28 knots for 052DE. The issue with ships like 054A and 052D was always the lower power. That meant they can't keep up with a carrier group. This new propulsion system should allow them to do that.
3.武备：

45型拥有48单元Sylver-50垂直发射系统，主要发射紫苑30防空导弹，射程120公里。一门Mk8 4.5英寸(114mm)舰炮，2门“密集阵”近防炮。8枚鱼叉反舰导弹。一架 EH101“梅林”重型反潜直升机。

054B拥有32单元垂直发射系统，主要发射HQ16F防空导弹，射程160公里。一门新型100mm舰炮，一门1130近防炮，一具HQ10近防导弹发射器。8枚YJ12反舰导弹。一架Z20F反潜直升机。

除了垂发数量不足，反潜直升机吨位较小外，054B的武器性能全面超越45型驱逐舰。
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This to me is the puzzling part. I don't mind the part of using YJ-12 launchers rather than VLS. I am quite disappointed if they are going with the same 32 cell VLS as in 054A. It is possible that they move to UVLS at a later point with a stretch. I think they should move toward a single VLS system rather than 1 for smaller ships and 1 for larger ships.
4.造价和建造周期：

6艘45型驱逐舰2006年时总造价就已高达60亿英镑，每艘造价按当时汇率约为150亿人民币。45型驱逐舰的平均建造周期为6.5年。

054B刚刚开工半年，造价和建造周期还不知道。但是造价肯定低于30亿人民币，建造周期肯定少于4年
[酷]
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If 054B end up being under 3 billion RMB ($400 million), then it will be a pretty good price for replacing 052C/D. I remember years ago, when 054A was quoted as 1.6 billion RMB. With inflation + significantly increased capability and size. 2.5 to 3 billion RMB seems quite reasonable.
 
Z

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
tphuang said:
lyman did an interesting post comparing Type 045 to Type 054B. I don't really care for the Type 045 part. However, if his information on 054B is close to accurate, then this is quite juicy details


So, Type 054B will be using dual faced radar of 3.5 m caliber? (length?). That's pretty big. I have no way of confirming that it's better than SPY-1D. Anyways, quite the large radar for a non dedicated air defense ship.


propulsion detail here is quite interesting. Full displacement of 5600t and regular displacement of 4900t. It uses Medium voltage Direct current IEPS. That sounds advanced, but I have no idea how advanced it is. This does make me think that the next batch of 055 will be using IEPS. Says they can reach 18knots without turning on gas turbine.

If this is all true, then the implication is that 054B has a lot of room to grow in the future into a larger ship. With more powerful gas turbine in the future, they should be able to generate even more power. That would allow for 054B to get stretched (in like a 054C) to over 6000t and fully replace 052C/D. And the top speed with a lot higher than the 28 knots for 052DE. The issue with ships like 054A and 052D was always the lower power. That meant they can't keep up with a carrier group. This new propulsion system should allow them to do that.

This to me is the puzzling part. I don't mind the part of using YJ-12 launchers rather than VLS. I am quite disappointed if they are going with the same 32 cell VLS as in 054A. It is possible that they move to UVLS at a later point with a stretch. I think they should move toward a single VLS system rather than 1 for smaller ships and 1 for larger ships.

If 054B end up being under 3 billion RMB ($400 million), then it will be a pretty good price for replacing 052C/D. I remember years ago, when 054A was quoted as 1.6 billion RMB. With inflation + significantly increased capability and size. 2.5 to 3 billion RMB seems quite reasonable.
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Why is he calling it the Type 054B? It’s clearly a new class of ship.
 
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