054B/new generation frigate

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
There is far too much looking into the AAW factor and not looking into others.

They got refitted with newer TAS and VDS in their last major refit. This means their current state of sonar performance is equal to a 052D or a 054A. Both are potent ASW hunters with two helicopters and a hanger. The addition of the Type 517 radar also makes it a long range radar picket ship capable of picking up stealthy targets albeit at a low resolution. There is also the bonus of having 16 antiship missiles, which you can install YU-11s instead of YJ-83 for a better sub hunting outcome. Both ships are fitted with the latest SATCOMs. There has been major updates in the SATCOMs of 054A and 056A ships to point that something is going on here that is primarily related to their mission. The ships are also fitted with the same EW and countermeasures fit as the 052D, which were then would be state of the art for the PLAN and the current working standard now. So in terms of soft kill measures the 052 refit is equal to a 052D.

The 053H3 refit boasts the same equipment as the 052 refit, but on a smaller ship. The real reduction is one helicopter instead of two and 8 ASM to 16 ASM canisters, which should also be YU-11 optional. The EW kit is on the same level as the last four Type 054A batch, which means technically, the 053H3 refit may have better EW capability over the first 20 Type 054A. And again, you got the TAS and the VDS for the sub hunting.

The rationale for the PLAN to build as many 054A and 056A as much as possible lies in the fact the PLAN is rightfully concerned about opposing submarine forces. Frigates are not counters to other frigates, frigates are counters to submarines. Retaining older ships that still have equal ASW potential would align to this. They should be useful as part of a green water or first island chain fleet as long as their hulls remain serviceable.
112 is the command ship of Northern Theatre Navy, not a work horse for regular ASW operation. HHQ-7 is definitely not good enough to protect a flag ship. And using at least one of the two 052s as a training ship should be the best way to keep it in service until 2030.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
It may still be true. PLAN will put 054B into mass production only if the first batch (2-4?) proves to be reliable. By then they should have already finished the new batch of 054As. Don't forget, they still have one 053H1 and two 053H1Gs in service. The two 052s may retire during the next 5 years, which could also be replaced by 054A. The oldest two 053H3s (521 & 524) were supposed to be sold before the pandemic. They could go anytime as long as there's a buyer. So, 20 might not be as many as it sounds.

I might add that after the Type 055 being mass produced into eight ships without having to prove the reliability of the first two, it can be that the PLAN is now beyond this cautious stage, is more confident that the ship will hit targets right at the start, and is now much more willing to make risks. The PLAN can go on and order a good batch (4 to 8 ships) right from the start, with evolutionary improvements after each batch.

112 is the command ship of Northern Theatre Navy, not a work horse for regular ASW operation. HHQ-7 is definitely not good enough to protect a flag ship. And using at least one of the two 052s as a training ship should be the best way to keep it in service until 2030.

But there is no doubt the ship has VDS and TAS installed. That's for ASW operation. Let me also add that being on gas turbines, which gives the ships smoother running, also makes it amenable for ASW operation. There are plenty of good ASW related checks with the ship.

As for flagship, its hard to see it act as a flagship when the Liaoning is around in the same port.
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
I might add that after the Type 055 being mass produced into eight ships without having to prove the reliability of the first two, it can be that the PLAN is now beyond this cautious stage, is more confident that the ship will hit targets right at the start, and is now much more willing to make risks. The PLAN can go on and order a good batch (4 to 8 ships) right from the start, with evolutionary improvements after each batch.
055's propulsion is a proven system. 054B is supposed to test IEP, which may be a problem.

But there is no doubt the ship has VDS and TAS installed. That's for ASW operation. Let me also add that being on gas turbines, which gives the ships smoother running, also makes it amenable for ASW operation. There are plenty of good ASW related checks with the ship.

As for flagship, its hard to see it act as a flagship when the Liaoning is around in the same port.
It's still the flag ship of the northern theatre navy. The sole 051B is the flag ship of the southern theatre navy, and 150 (the 3rd 052C) for the eastern theatre.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Building additional 20 054As when you already have 30 of them in service is puzzling. It's even more puzzling when you consider that 054A is hardly at cutting-edge now and when you already have started building your next-generation frigate,

Unless, of course, situations or realistic scenarios call for a large and quick build-up. What are the situations that justify such a buildup? I can think of two, not necessarily mutually exclusive.

The first one is to anticipate some serious conflicts in the near future with very large and powerful adversaries, in which case you need the right class of ships to scale quickly and cost-effectively, to the quantity above and beyond what you need for normal time. The ship needs to be mature and capable. Among PLAN's surface combatants, 054A is that ship. It meets the criteria and strikes the balance.

The second is that I predict China will fight a war of presence in its surrounding waters (SCS/around Taiwan/ECS) and in the Western Pacific up to second island chain in the next decade. The Western Pacific has become very crowded waters with so many navies, both from neighboring and far-flung countries, sending their warships either to do FONS or joint exercises. PLAN needs many ships to track, monitor, repulse, control or simply be present everywhere and at anytime. Or better yet it may want to crowd out the adversaries' presence. For that, you need a lot of ships that can be deployed widely, cost-effectively and able to defend themselves.

There have been precedent for the second situation. Over 10 years ago, when Japanese government took over the ownership of Senkaku Islands, China launched a large and quick buildup of its CMS fleet by building more and much larger ships than its Japanese counterpart, and challenged this Japanese sovereign act by sending maritime coast guard ships regularly within the territorial waters of Senkaku Islands. Japan couldn't do anything about it and had to accept the constant presence of CMS ships.

Some recent news also help support this hypothesis.

In the first one,
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, between Yonaguni Island of Japan and northeast Taiwan according to Japanese sources. It's a PLAN Type 054A frigate. This is something new. Expect more ships in more places regularly around Taiwan and SCS. In fact, I expect China will eventually have large naval presence to the east of Taiwan regularly if not constantly, including aircraft carrier group.

In the second one,
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. Like the ECS ADIZ announced in 2013, this one will be difficult to enforce initially, but it is to lay the foundation for more enforcement in the future.

These are not isolated events. China has a strategy, clearly.


Type 054A is the PLAN's "omni" ship. Backbone. Workhorse. Grunt. All describes the ship.

The latest USN foray into the Taiwan straits also has the obligatory Type 054A following it.

When the JMSDF was tracking that Type 093 near the Ryukus, there was a Type 054A in the vicinity, likely tracking the JMSDF ships.

Every Gulf of Aden mission has a 054A on it, and the only times it didn't was because there were 054 instead.

PLAN deployments into the Philippine Sea, breaking through the MIyako Straits also has the obligatory one or two Type 054A.

We also see Type 054A, working with, if not leading, Type 056/056A 'wolf packs'. We also see the Type 054A working with Sovremennys.

I have very little doubt that the PLAN is very happy with this ship. The follow on has big shoes to follow.

50 ships isn't too much when you consider the OHP class was around 71 ships. The Krivak class was around 40 ships, not counting the new subclass that's still going around.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
055's propulsion is a proven system. 054B is supposed to test IEP, which may be a problem.


What about the 055's radars, and there are two sets of them that are new, and one of them has no predecessor. On top of that you got all new EW systems, new IFF systems, even a new CEC system. All these sensors and equipment are bound to create tremendous heat while requiring tremendous amount of juice and cooling. There is plenty of places that can go wrong on this.

As for IEP, I don't think that is enough to dissuade the PLAN from going bold.


It's still the flag ship of the northern theatre navy. The sole 051B is the flag ship of the southern theatre navy, and 150 (the 3rd 052C) for the eastern theatre.

Maybe by title, but not in defacto. I don't even know or thinks the PLAN has a "flagship" per se for some years now. The sole 051B for example, hasn't led a single Gulf of Aden mission for a long time, and its appearances seems more like an escort for the Type 071s. The flagship is the ship chosen to have the best command facilities and for the Northern Theater its obvious that role goes to the Liaoning, and to the south, it will be the Shandong.
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
What about the 055's radars, and there are two sets of them that are new, and one of them has no predecessor. On top of that you got all new EW systems, new IFF systems, even a new CEC system. All these sensors and equipment are bound to create tremendous heat while requiring tremendous amount of juice and cooling. There is plenty of places that can go wrong on this.

As for IEP, I don't think that is enough to dissuade the PLAN from going bold.




Maybe by title, but not in defacto. I don't even know or thinks the PLAN has a "flagship" per se for some years now. The sole 051B for example, hasn't led a single Gulf of Aden mission for a long time, and its appearances seems more like an escort for the Type 071s. The flagship is the ship chosen to have the best command facilities and for the Northern Theater its obvious that role goes to the Liaoning, and to the south, it will be the Shandong.
Radar is a different story. You can largely test it on land. And with the experience gained with 052C/D, they should be quite confident. IEP, on the other hand, is totally new. The situation is similar to what happened for the first two 052Cs, when PLAN first incorporated AESA. It took them several years to refine it. Don't forget, when something totally new is introduced, the problem is not just about the technical issues, you also need to develop a full set of doctrines for the sailers, which takes time.

Maybe by title, but not in defacto. I don't even know or thinks the PLAN has a "flagship" per se for some years now. The sole 051B for example, hasn't led a single Gulf of Aden mission for a long time, and its appearances seems more like an escort for the Type 071s. The flagship is the ship chosen to have the best command facilities and for the Northern Theater its obvious that role goes to the Liaoning, and to the south, it will be the Shandong.
CVs are commanded directly by PLAN, do not belong to the northern theatre.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
It may still be true. PLAN will put 054B into mass production only if the first batch (2-4?) proves to be reliable. By then they should have already finished the new batch of 054As. Don't forget, they still have one 053H1 and two 053H1Gs in service. The two 052s may retire during the next 5 years, which could also be replaced by 054A. The oldest two 053H3s (521 & 524) were supposed to be sold before the pandemic. They could go anytime as long as there's a buyer. So, 20 might not be as many as it sounds.


At this stage we don't know if the 054B will be put into mass production immediately or if it will need a first batch to be proven first.

Personally, I suspect that if the PLAN are confident with an IEPS mainline surface combatant like 054B, then they would likely be comfortable putting the ship class into mass production from the outset (instead of small scale production like 052, 052B, 052C, 051C in pairs initially), with the most significant concern likely only teething issues rather than anything that is crippling in nature.

The nature of long lead time of surface combatants, means that the amount of time it would need to verify the IEPS completely would likely see a significant pause between the end of 054A production and that milestone. I am not sure if the PLAN would accept such a delay of 054Bs.

Instead, I think it is more likely that the large run of 054As will contribute as part of a method of keeping a sufficiently sized frigate fleet in service by the mid 2020s, in the event that 054Bs see teething issues.
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
At this stage we don't know if the 054B will be put into mass production immediately or if it will need a first batch to be proven first.

Personally, I suspect that if the PLAN are confident with an IEPS mainline surface combatant like 054B, then they would likely be comfortable putting the ship class into mass production from the outset (instead of small scale production like 052, 052B, 052C, 051C in pairs initially), with the most significant concern likely only teething issues rather than anything that is crippling in nature.

The nature of long lead time of surface combatants, means that the amount of time it would need to verify the IEPS completely would likely see a significant pause between the end of 054A production and that milestone. I am not sure if the PLAN would accept such a delay of 054Bs.

Instead, I think it is more likely that the large run of 054As will contribute as part of a method of keeping a sufficiently sized frigate fleet in service by the mid 2020s, in the event that 054Bs see teething issues.
If PLAN would put 054B into mass production from the begining, they wouldn't have ordered so many new 054As. I guess the first batch of 054B could be just 2-4. And there'll be a gap of a couple of years. After that the new batch of 054A should be finished and all newer frigates should be 054Bs.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Radar is a different story. You can largely test it on land. And with the experience gained with 052C/D, they should be quite confident. IEP, on the other hand, is totally new. The situation is similar to what happened for the first two 052Cs, when PLAN first incorporated AESA. It took them several years to refine it. Don't forget, when something totally new is introduced, the problem is not just about the technical issues, you also need to develop a full set of doctrines for the sailers, which takes time.


CVs are commanded directly by PLAN, do not belong to the northern theatre.

IEP can be tested by having it equipped on test ships. I should note there already is a number of civilian vessels in China that are IEP, including a cruise ship. This is the same technology used on a conventional submarine.

Refinement of the 052C radar took place in the sea and not just on land. This is because of dealing with the sea clutter in the actual high seas, as opposed to a land based station.

If a carrier is not the ship used for command, I don't know is. The command facilities on the 052 is already long obsolete. You need good radar, you need datalinks, you need a whole set of communications, you also need a special bridge room for the admiral.

Saying that the 052 won't be appropriated for ASW use is ridiculous when they were equipped with VDS and TAS. They were the first vessels in the PLAN to have a VDS and a TAS, albeit French copied originally, then refitted with the modern Chinese designs in 2011/12.
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
At this stage we don't know if the 054B will be put into mass production immediately or if it will need a first batch to be proven first.

Personally, I suspect that if the PLAN are confident with an IEPS mainline surface combatant like 054B, then they would likely be comfortable putting the ship class into mass production from the outset (instead of small scale production like 052, 052B, 052C, 051C in pairs initially), with the most significant concern likely only teething issues rather than anything that is crippling in nature.

The nature of long lead time of surface combatants, means that the amount of time it would need to verify the IEPS completely would likely see a significant pause between the end of 054A production and that milestone. I am not sure if the PLAN would accept such a delay of 054Bs.

Instead, I think it is more likely that the large run of 054As will contribute as part of a method of keeping a sufficiently sized frigate fleet in service by the mid 2020s, in the event that 054Bs see teething issues.
What PLA need
IEP can be tested by having it equipped on test ships. I should note there already is a number of civilian vessels in China that are IEP, including a cruise ship. This is the same technology used on a conventional submarine.

Refinement of the 052C radar took place in the sea and not just on land. This is because of dealing with the sea clutter in the actual high seas, as opposed to a land based station.

If a carrier is not the ship used for command, I don't know is. The command facilities on the 052 is already long obsolete. You need good radar, you need datalinks, you need a whole set of communications, you also need a special bridge room for the admiral.

Saying that the 052 won't be appropriated for ASW use is ridiculous when they were equipped with VDS and TAS. They were the first vessels in the PLAN to have a VDS and a TAS, albeit French copied originally, then refitted with the modern Chinese designs in 2011/12.
IEP is not just for propulsion. You can't test it solely on civilian ships.

As for 112, even for recent drills involving northern theatre navy, it still works as the command ship. I don't know why, but it's reported consistently. Let's see, if PLAN wants to keep the two 052s as combatants towards 2030s, we should see them getting refitted again very soon. Otherwise, they would likely be decommissioned during 2025-2028 or transfered to Dalian Naval Academy.
 
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