054/A FFG Thread II

[lilzz]

integration of new vessels changes the doctrines of operation and it takes time. must wait years before moving to a new generation of ships.

I would put the priority on developing the industrial military complex over readiness of its naval forces. China is not going to fight any wars anytime soon.

afterall, there are still so many systems China couldn't make on its own and overcoming those hurdles by doing more different designs and gaining experiences from them.

 

[Maggern]

I would put the priority on developing the industrial military complex over readiness of its naval forces. China is not going to fight any wars anytime soon.

afterall, there are still so many systems China couldn't make on its own and overcoming those hurdles by doing more different designs and gaining experiences from them.

The problem with wars is that they rarely follow your schedules. *poof* and then it's there. If you're not ready, you will lose.

 

[escobar]

I would put the priority on developing the industrial military complex over readiness of its naval forces. China is not going to fight any wars anytime soon.

the two go hand in hand

afterall, there are still so many systems China couldn't make on its own and overcoming those hurdles by doing more different designs and gaining experiences from them.

this is not a reason to produce without thinking

 

[lilzz]

Nowadays, almost anyone can make a frigate, its no big deal. Like the Shivalik.

Do something more advance or different to leapfrog the competitors.

 

[maozedong]

so many old Frigates need to be replaced.and Luda-class destroyers began to retire, 054A much better and larger than Luda.

 

[EDIATH]

I could be wrong but it seems PLAN follows the pattern of "building ships for available engines" instead of the other way around. 052C only became a possibilty after GT25000 were acquired. Now that its indigenious version QC260 has turned out, PLAN can re-open the 052C production line again after all these years of pause. As to the even larger destroyer that carries more vertical launched missiles (& tackles everybody's imagination for years), we just have to pray for the progress on the LM2500 class gas turbine: QC185.

The same story goes for 054 series. The number of Pilstick disels they bought pretty much determines the number of ships that would eventually roll out. However, the upgraded 054(B?) is likely to have its displacement increased for more equipments; or higher speed to be part of the future carrier group; or even lower length-wideth ratio to improve the seaworthiness. I would say only a couple of gas turbines could make all those things happen, to be more specific, two QC185s with nearly 18MW power each would be idea for a 5000-ton size frigate (& four for Destroyers on par with USN Arleigh Burke).

I won't bet my money on a new design before at least another batch of 054A make their appearances at HD/HP, 2012 perhaps.:coffee:

 

[rhino123]

I could be wrong but it seems PLAN follows the pattern of "building ships for available engines" instead of the other way around. 052C only became a possibilty after GT25000 were acquired. Now that its indigenious version QC260 has turned out, PLAN can re-open the 052C production line again after all these years of pause. As to the even larger destroyer that carries more vertical launched missiles (& tackles everybody's imagination for years), we just have to pray for the progress on the LM2500 class gas turbine: QC185.

The same story goes for 054 series. The number of Pilstick disels they bought pretty much determines the number of ships that would eventually roll out. However, the upgraded 054(B?) is likely to have its displacement increased for more equipments; or higher speed to be part of the future carrier group; or even lower length-wideth ratio to improve the seaworthiness. I would say only a couple of gas turbines could make all those things happen, to be more specific, two QC185s with nearly 18MW power each would be idea for a 5000-ton size frigate (& four for Destroyers on par with USN Arleigh Burke).

I won't bet my money on a new design before at least another batch of 054A make their appearances at HD/HP, 2012 perhaps.:coffee:

If what you say is true... then it would show that the engine research department in China is still lacking behind... it is more or less determined that the engine developement is a bottleneck in China's military ship building industries and the country basically still depended on others for her engines.

I wonder that for a industrialised country like China, who had made excellent leap in every aspect of heavy industries would allow her one most crucial area to be lacking behind - power generation.

 

[plawolf]

I think the PLAN would prefer numbers over tonnage at this moment in time.

They already have a couple of 052Cs and 051Cs for at least two carrier battle groups' worth of destroyers. So that's their immediate future operational needs met till at least 2015-2020 if not later.

Being the practical bunch that they are, it would make a lot more sense to maximize output of the already world class 054B FFGs and wait a few years for technologies to mature more to get better DDGs in the future as there is no pressing need for them at present.

 

[rhino123]

I think the PLAN would prefer numbers over tonnage at this moment in time.

They already have a couple of 052Cs and 051Cs for at least two carrier battle groups' worth of destroyers. So that's their immediate future operational needs met till at least 2015-2020 if not later.

Being the practical bunch that they are, it would make a lot more sense to maximize output of the already world class 054B FFGs and wait a few years for technologies to mature more to get better DDGs in the future as there is no pressing need for them at present.

054A I presume. Because up till now, I don't think we are seeing any 054B yet.

 

[EDIATH]

If what you say is true... then it would show that the engine research department in China is still lacking behind... it is more or less determined that the engine developement is a bottleneck in China's military ship building industries and the country basically still depended on others for her engines.

QC185 uses WS10 turbo fan as its gas generator therefore largely depends on the schedule of WS10, which is a well-known struggle unfortunately. Considering they have just managed to manufacture Ukrainian GT25000/DA80 locally, Chinese shipping engine indrustry seems even further behind its aviation counterpart (arguably they are one & the same e.g. Shengyang Liming makes both WS10 & QC185)

[I think the PLAN would prefer numbers over tonnage at this moment in time.

They already have a couple of 052Cs and 051Cs for at least two carrier battle groups' worth of destroyers. So that's their immediate future operational needs met till at least 2015-2020 if not later.

Being the practical bunch that they are, it would make a lot more sense to maximize output of the already world class 054B FFGs and wait a few years for technologies to mature more to get better DDGs in the future as there is no pressing need for them at present.

Generally I agree with your rationale, however the statement about 2 carrier groups' worth might be a tad overly optimistic. Neither 052C nor 054A runs above 30 knots, for start I wouldn't imagine the carrier in development running below that; then the air defence & asw might be somehow lacking with the shortage of vls & in helos. I actually believe 054A & 052B/C were "made for each other", the honor of joining carrier groups *will fall onto their respective successors in the years to come.

Ops, did you mention 051C? Are they supposed to be merely experimental? Or am I just prejudiced against steam turbines*