054/A FFG Thread II

[Tam]

Are these new batch 054As equipped with YJ-12s?

It would completely befuddle me if they're still equipping them with YJ-83s. The 12 is such a massive capability advantage. They need to retrofit the older ships with the 12 as well.

We need to be sure and only until the ships are seen equipped with them. But I won't be surprised if YJ-83s are still used.

There are two reasons and both align with the frigate's mission.

The first is that the YJ-83 is not the same YJ-83 any longer. We are aware of a new version called the YJ-83B. This variant now has a infrared imaging seeker, with a black face on a canted nose. The point with using this seeker is that now, it no longer uses radar as a guidance system. It locks on to the target based on its pixelated image. With no radar emissions, the missile gives no radar threat warning of its approach, and it cannot be jammed using electronic warfare. Your best bet would be to use chaff and flares, and shoot down the missile directly. The second point of this seeker, which is important, is that it can be used against land targets, such as islands with antiship missile batteries in them. The third point of this seeker, is that it can lock onto opposing littoral combat vessels such as FACs as radar guidance can have issues against littoral environments due to the sea bed, rocks and islands.

The second point of retaining the YJ-83 launchers is the use of the YU-11 ASROC. Although this makes more sense on the Type 056A, since the Type 054A can equip the YU-8 ASROC on the VLS.

 

[by78]

Alternately firing the main guns...

 

[blindsight]

Has anyone posted the refitted 054 yet?

 

[Tam]

I have not seen this particular picture before. Do you have an enlarged and high definition version?

 

[blindsight]

I have not seen this particular picture before. Do you have an enlarged and high definition version?

Sorry, I don't. Just got it from an old "news".

 

[clockwork]

Are we sure another batch of 20 054As have been ordered? Tbh that doesn't make sense to me, if the 054B has been delayed somehow and this is another interim order you'd think it'd be smaller, like under 10. Despite the huge numbers that have been built the main thing the 054A has going for it is okay anti-air ability (and anti-submarine?), and even then only medium-range SAMs, it's weak in other areas like anti-ship and nonexistent land-attack capability. Overall clearly less capable than something like the Admiral Gorshkov class for instance and far less impressive than the PLAN's new destroyer classes in stark contrast. You'd think China should wait until the 054B before ordering more?

Is it possible the new order is actually for an upgraded class?

 

[AndrewS]

Are we sure another batch of 20 054As have been ordered? Tbh that doesn't make sense to me, if the 054B has been delayed somehow and this is another interim order you'd think it'd be smaller, like under 10. Despite the huge numbers that have been built the main thing the 054A has going for it is okay anti-air ability (and anti-submarine?), and even then only medium-range SAMs, it's weak in other areas like anti-ship and nonexistent land-attack capability. Overall clearly less capable than something like the Admiral Gorshkov class for instance and far less impressive than the PLAN's new destroyer classes in stark contrast. You'd think China should wait until the 054B before ordering more?

Is it possible the new order is actually for an upgraded class?

When would the Chinese Navy ever want to send a Frigate to do anti-ship and land-attack?
That is the job of long-range missiles which can be launched from numerous destroyers, aircraft and land-based trucks.

Note that the Admiral Gorshkov frigates cost $500 Million each.
For a little bit more ($550 Million), the Chinese Navy might as well buy a Type-052D destroyer instead.

Plus the Type-054A costs roughly $250 Million, so you can buy 2 of them for the cost of a single Admiral Gorshkov Frigate or Type-052D destroyer. You can't really argue against that if you're doing ASW within the 1st Island Chain and have destroyers or fighter jets providing air cover.

In terms of ASW ability, the Type-054A should be the equal of any other larger ship, due to its Towed Array + VDS + Bow Sonar + Helicopter. That is useful when you have to interpose a lower value ship against an enemy submarine trying to reach its target.

---

I actually see a future FFG as being tailored for blue-water operations with Carrier Strike Groups in the Western Pacific around the 2nd Island Chain. Such a Frigate would benefit from being larger, having a higher speed and a better air-defence suite than the current Type-054A.

So I think the order for 20 Type-054A Frigates in the 2021-2025 plan is credible.
Apparently 5 of them have already been launched in 2021 for the Chinese Navy. See below

Total PLAN Ship Launched (Including Exports）

View attachment 80666

 

[Lethe]

Are we sure another batch of 20 054As have been ordered? Tbh that doesn't make sense to me, if the 054B has been delayed somehow and this is another interim order you'd think it'd be smaller, like under 10. Despite the huge numbers that have been built the main thing the 054A has going for it is okay anti-air ability (and anti-submarine?), and even then only medium-range SAMs, it's weak in other areas like anti-ship and nonexistent land-attack capability. Overall clearly less capable than something like the Admiral Gorshkov class for instance and far less impressive than the PLAN's new destroyer classes in stark contrast. You'd think China should wait until the 054B before ordering more?

054A is an anti-submarine (ASW) asset first and foremost, and a general 'presence' asset second. Like 056A, what makes it a good ASW asset is in pairing a high level of ASW capability with modest cost, which in turn allows for many ships to be built, where ASW is in large part about presence: about constraining the options available to hostile submarine forces by creating a dense matrix of sensor nodes and modalities with high-level of coordination between them. An expensive, high-end "capital ship" is not a good ASW asset because it is going to be a major target itself.

Philosophically, I don't assign too much weight to rumours about the numbers of ships that are intended to be built. They emerge as they emerge. At first glance an additional 20 054As does seem like too many to be a stopgap order, which makes me suspect that 054B may, despite the designation, be a rather different vessel with a different size/cost/mission profile, similar to the jump from 052 to 052B. Alternatively, China's shipbuilding capabilities coupled with ongoing technological development may eventually lead PLAN to indulge in a more rapid turnover of combatants than we are used to seeing. Or perhaps they actually intend to operate 65+ frigates in the long-term. There are many possibilities, and I think it is a mistake to get too attached to any one hypothesis or rumour.

 

[Tam]

Sorry, I don't. Just got it from an old "news".

Its the only picture of the 054 refit with antiship missiles. Either she is going out for trials and has returned to service at this point.

Visually I don't get enough picture of this ship, as IMO a very good looking ship. Compared to the 054A, the bezel and that crease line is non interrupted from the tip of the bow all the way to the back of the ship. It does not have a tall "cliff" in front of the superstructure as the 054A does, and that smooths the outline of the ship. It doesn't have as many domes all over the ship, giving it a cleaner look. I think the replacement of the HQ-7 with HQ-10 makes the ship look cleaner, which is also helped by removing the guidance radar for the HQ-7.

The fact that the ship serves with the 3rd means a likely prospect of seeing her with the refitted Sovs together in the same image.

 

[blindsight]

Its the only picture of the 054 refit with antiship missiles. Either she is going out for trials and has returned to service at this point.

Visually I don't get enough picture of this ship, as IMO a very good looking ship. Compared to the 054A, the bezel and that crease line is non interrupted from the tip of the bow all the way to the back of the ship. It does not have a tall "cliff" in front of the superstructure as the 054A does, and that smooths the outline of the ship. It doesn't have as many domes all over the ship, giving it a cleaner look. I think the replacement of the HQ-7 with HQ-10 makes the ship look cleaner, which is also helped by removing the guidance radar for the HQ-7.

The fact that the ship serves with the 3rd means a likely prospect of seeing her with the refitted Sovs together in the same image.

It's already returned to service. It took about two and half years to finish the refitting and it seems the HQ-10 is the only new weapon system installed? That is definitely not that impressive...