054/A FFG Thread II
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
The logic that China have so many export orientated MR-SAM out there and not have one in service or near-service doesn't make sense.
Placing all the ship's inventory on just long-range SAM is not smart since each cell can only occupy 1 missile. You will run out missiles quickly in a fight since normally naval engagement requires 2 missiles per incoming target. The benefits of a quad packed MR SAM outweighs the benefits of not having one.
Placing all the ship's inventory on just long-range SAM is not smart since each cell can only occupy 1 missile. You will run out missiles quickly in a fight since normally naval engagement requires 2 missiles per incoming target. The benefits of a quad packed MR SAM outweighs the benefits of not having one.
- Increase the number of missiles ships can carry even if the VLS cell count is small
- Multiple layers of air defense for a ship
- No need to fire two LR-SAM at one target immediately. a single launch for the LR-SAM and then if that fails, MR-SAM can engage.
- MR can sustain higher Gs turns than a bigger LR missile allowing for higher PK of intercepts. So you really can't have a LR act as MR intercept.
lcloo
Captain
But isn't HQ-16 a MR missile? HHQ-9 is long range missile but only destroyers has room for it, unless China develop large frigate of 6,000 to 7,000 tons like the European navies, and equip this large frigate with HHQ-9 and MR missiles. And won't this be an over-lap with type 052D?
Yes, I would call an HQ-16 a MR missile
You would have to go U-VLS for that, unless the AJK-16 would have to quad pack.
Possible thought flow avenues-
You can't change the 054A anymore on their VLS. This means the 054B has to go U-VLS to allow for U-VLS compatible quadpack missile. There are only two operational lengths of the VLS, one that allows for 7 meter missile length, and the other 9 meter missile length (this does not reflect total physical length of the VLS, which exceeds this). The 7 meter one for the minimum quad pack missile would allow for HQ-9 anyway.
Assuming the ship can support HQ-9 even in a smaller ship, the next step is the radar. The smaller ship cannot support the four sided Type 346A, the best it can do is support the rotating dual sided AESA, but which is considerably smaller and one can assume, less powerful than the 346A, even with more advanced technology added such as GaN and liquid cooling. Still, my guesstimate is that this radar performs in the same level as SAMPSON, MF-Star and even Thales NS200. The ship can still be capable of using HQ-9 but I assume will not be able to fully utilize PK/range as well as a 052D does. If this dual sided radar is able to match the performance of the 346A, it makes 052D obsolete and you might as well make 64 VLS ships using this radar. However, perfection may not be warranted, and even if the HHQ-9 performance with the dual sided may not be as good as with the 346A, it may still be adequate enough and useful.
The second thought flow assumes the frigate with U-VLS will use HHQ-16 instead. With U-VLS using quad pack missile, we want to use HHQ-16 with U-VLS. That's not going to be hard since land based HQ-16 is cold launched anyway, and regardless if you want hot or cold launch, this requires a new canister for the HHQ-16. Its possible that If HHQ-16s would evolve further, we can see moderate increases in range and in the seeker performance.
Third thought flow is that a separate quad pack is developed for the AJK-16, and the AJK-16 has similar surface dimensions to Mk.41. This train of thought is more speculative. The whole AJK-16 system --- VLS, HHQ-16, target emitters --- are developed by SAST institute of CASC, and this institute also developed the LY-70 missile as of late. Based on Zhuhai photos, LY-70 has similar dimensions to ESSM. Is SAST developing a quad pack for the AJK-16 using this missile? They would be the ones in the driver's seat to do so and the LY-70, or some other missile, might be their candidates. Again, this is highly speculative. Without any possibility that the 054A and AJK-16 will get quad pack, the 054A is left with its current layers of defense.
lcloo
Captain
What kind of MRSAM is expected to be quadpacked in a launch cell in a frigate like type 054B? And what would be the displacement of type 054B and dimension of new UVLS?
It goes back to what the mission requires
The Type-054A already has 32 VLS cells. Why do they need more SAMs, considering that their mission is
1. Rear area convoy (ASW and Medium-Range Air Defence)
2. ASW under friendly air cover or with Destroyers carrying long-range SAMs
3. Resupply and reloading is from nearby homeports
---
I think we will see a quad packable MR-SAM for the UVLS
But remember the primary users will be the Destroyers, not Frigates
So far there are 25 Type-052D and 8 Type-055
And we're probably looking at another 20 Type-052D and 8 Type-055 in the 2021-2025 plan
That works out as a total of 4672 VLS cells available
The Destroyers already have LR-SAMs available, and a smaller number of MR-SAMs would complement this