054/A FFG Thread II
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Zhuk-M was fielded on MiG-29SMT. Zhuk was fielded on MiG-29S.
Neither of them during the Cold War and the period immediately after that. These were much more modern developments and by then were already well superceded with phase array developments. Unlike the West where slotted arrays became a staple, the Soviets and then the Russians skipped slotted array for fighter radar since phase array was developed early (see Zaslon). The only reason you would develop or use slotted array post Cold War was for cost and for export.
This has already gone way past topic.
In my opinion, MR-90 Orekhs would either have been using Foster scans like SPG-49, or use electronic beam steering via phase array, which is the type of scanning that replaced Foster scans for their applications --- Foster scanning was used to track artillery and mortar shells --- which also makes them ideal to track missiles.
The shipyards are teeming with 052Ds, 055s, and 056s, but the production of 054As indeed are dying down, with only one new ship being constructed and another being fitted.
Just thinking of how the next generation of frigates would play in any part of the next generation of PLA SAMs, assuming they get navalized.
These are the:
SD-50
FK-3 (said to be HQ-22)
FM-3000
FK-3 uses command guidance + semi active radar homing on terminal, which fits the HQ-16's operating style.
SD-50 is of course, an active guidance missile designed to deal with saturation attacks.
The FM-3000 is interesting. Its a short range active guided missile --- range at 20 to 30km is shorter than the SD-50's 50km --- but is meant to deal with saturation attacks along with stealthy targets. I am wondering if this missile might use an AESA seeker. It doesn't waist up like the SD-50, which goes from .20m at the fore of the missile to .26m at the booster, which reduces its quad packing options. I have not found the diameter of the missile and still looking for it, but for now I would assume .20m in general for missiles of this type. If its around .20m or less, the missile might be potentially quad packable with the H/AJK-16, which I still don't have the exact data in diameter, but which I assume to be around from .65m to .7m. The ranges also feels the gap between the FL-3000 (HQ-10) and FM-90 (HQ-7) and the HQ-16/LY-80.
Just thinking of how the next generation of frigates would play in any part of the next generation of PLA SAMs, assuming they get navalized.
These are the:
SD-50
FK-3 (said to be HQ-22)
FM-3000
FK-3 uses command guidance + semi active radar homing on terminal, which fits the HQ-16's operating style.
SD-50 is of course, an active guidance missile designed to deal with saturation attacks.
The FM-3000 is interesting. Its a short range active guided missile --- range at 20 to 30km is shorter than the SD-50's 50km --- but is meant to deal with saturation attacks along with stealthy targets. I am wondering if this missile might use an AESA seeker. It doesn't waist up like the SD-50, which goes from .20m at the fore of the missile to .26m at the booster, which reduces its quad packing options. I have not found the diameter of the missile and still looking for it, but for now I would assume .20m in general for missiles of this type. If its around .20m or less, the missile might be potentially quad packable with the H/AJK-16, which I still don't have the exact data in diameter, but which I assume to be around from .65m to .7m. The ranges also feels the gap between the FL-3000 (HQ-10) and FM-90 (HQ-7) and the HQ-16/LY-80.
TNI writes about China's "streetfighter" ships, and points to the success of the numerous Type 054A frigates and Type 056 corvettes as proof of that.
What?
Before I continue, this article clarifies what the 'Streetfighter' means in US Navy circles. This idea isn't new, goes back over a century to torpedo boats and has since seen different incarnations, the latest of which is the Streetfighter.
So describing generally a single purpose littoral combat ship that happens to be cheap and expendable. That describes today's patrol boats, FACs and missile boats to a tee. But I don't see how it describes the Type 054A and Type 056 that the author alludes as being 'Streetfighter'. The Type 054A is a general purpose and multipurpose ship, and isn't a small ship. The Type 056 is a small ship, but either general purpose or ASW, which doesn't quite meet the description. The ships that seem to be "Streetfighter" are the missile boats and FACs like the Type 022. During the height of the Type 022 production where large numbers are produced in a surge, it may seem the PLAN was adopting this concept. Then the production of the 022 stopped, and everything concentrated to the larger ships starting from the 056. This for me signaled a big change in the PLAN's direction and the strategy that the PLAN maybe embracing looks more like a modification of the Soviet 'Bastion' strategy --- first by securing the 'China seas' as bastions, then extending the bastions outward.
The TNI article goes on about the trimaran frigate model that was displayed in 2016 in a defense exhibit, then talks about it like its some kind of future frigate for the PLAN. They should realize that stuff displayed in defense exhibits can be proposals that are already rejected by the PLA, and therefore allowed for export. Second, we already seem to have a general grasp or idea of the 054A's successor and its not a trimaran. Needless to say, the trimaran concept has its virtues but the bottomline remains it has been rejected by the PLAN at least for now. It seems some analysts appear obsessed with the ship as some kind of future PLAN ship, but only goes to show how little they know, and to add to that, I don't see how this ship fits some kind of 'Streetfighter' concept anyway.
.
What?
Before I continue, this article clarifies what the 'Streetfighter' means in US Navy circles. This idea isn't new, goes back over a century to torpedo boats and has since seen different incarnations, the latest of which is the Streetfighter.
So describing generally a single purpose littoral combat ship that happens to be cheap and expendable. That describes today's patrol boats, FACs and missile boats to a tee. But I don't see how it describes the Type 054A and Type 056 that the author alludes as being 'Streetfighter'. The Type 054A is a general purpose and multipurpose ship, and isn't a small ship. The Type 056 is a small ship, but either general purpose or ASW, which doesn't quite meet the description. The ships that seem to be "Streetfighter" are the missile boats and FACs like the Type 022. During the height of the Type 022 production where large numbers are produced in a surge, it may seem the PLAN was adopting this concept. Then the production of the 022 stopped, and everything concentrated to the larger ships starting from the 056. This for me signaled a big change in the PLAN's direction and the strategy that the PLAN maybe embracing looks more like a modification of the Soviet 'Bastion' strategy --- first by securing the 'China seas' as bastions, then extending the bastions outward.
The TNI article goes on about the trimaran frigate model that was displayed in 2016 in a defense exhibit, then talks about it like its some kind of future frigate for the PLAN. They should realize that stuff displayed in defense exhibits can be proposals that are already rejected by the PLA, and therefore allowed for export. Second, we already seem to have a general grasp or idea of the 054A's successor and its not a trimaran. Needless to say, the trimaran concept has its virtues but the bottomline remains it has been rejected by the PLAN at least for now. It seems some analysts appear obsessed with the ship as some kind of future PLAN ship, but only goes to show how little they know, and to add to that, I don't see how this ship fits some kind of 'Streetfighter' concept anyway.
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Lethe
Captain
Personally I think a light trimaran frigate as depicted above makes a lot of sense for a future PLAN as a high-end littoral ASW asset, but yeah the article is rather bizarre: it's a year late, 054A is in no sense a "streetfighter" (and nor is 056 for that matter, being too slow), and the US did not originate the concept of small, missile-armed warships, rather the American concept was a response to the asymmetric threat such vessels posed to USN's large warships. Still, it brings in the clicks for the website and cash for the author and that's what counts.
One of the not so noticed aspects of the trimaran frigate is the radar on top here.
Which looks like this phase array, possible AESA.
... that's associated for the guidance testing for the LY-80N aka HHQ-16 export.
So definitely HHQ-16 on that trimaran, maybe 2 x 8 cell configuration. Would be interesting to see this phase array show up in the 054B as the new engagement radar for the HHQ-16.
Which looks like this phase array, possible AESA.
... that's associated for the guidance testing for the LY-80N aka HHQ-16 export.
So definitely HHQ-16 on that trimaran, maybe 2 x 8 cell configuration. Would be interesting to see this phase array show up in the 054B as the new engagement radar for the HHQ-16.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
The end of a era
The final and last Type 054A the 30th unit
I have followed this production since 2006
What a amazing time
Finally reporting the last next due is the Type 054B
The final and last Type 054A the 30th unit
I have followed this production since 2006
What a amazing time
Finally reporting the last next due is the Type 054B
Isn't this a photo of the 2000t coast guard cutter? Doesn't change your point though.
The breadth and momentum behind China's naval program is simply breathtaking. I Also remember what it was like back in 2006/7, the first time I stumbled across this forum. Everyone speculating over the type52a, waiting for the follow on to the first type052c's, and Liaoning nothing but a rust bucket with a ridiculous cover story. Now China produces world class warships at a rate of 'half the Royal Navy' every year. It takes a long time to put in place the industrial and technological capacity to do what China is doing, but now that it is there...the next decade is going to be something to behold. I confidently predict that by 2025, whatever it is that China is producing, it will be the standard to which other Navy's aspire.
The breadth and momentum behind China's naval program is simply breathtaking. I Also remember what it was like back in 2006/7, the first time I stumbled across this forum. Everyone speculating over the type52a, waiting for the follow on to the first type052c's, and Liaoning nothing but a rust bucket with a ridiculous cover story. Now China produces world class warships at a rate of 'half the Royal Navy' every year. It takes a long time to put in place the industrial and technological capacity to do what China is doing, but now that it is there...the next decade is going to be something to behold. I confidently predict that by 2025, whatever it is that China is producing, it will be the standard to which other Navy's aspire.