Cronyism and pork barrel politics are an entrenched part of the US system. The problem is that its net effect has been off balance in recent decades, it has been hijacked to serve big money and corporate interests too much, instead of or at the expense of the public or the common good.
054/A FFG Thread II
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Cronyism and pork barrel politics are an entrenched part of the US system. The problem is that its net effect has been off balance in recent decades, it has been hijacked to serve big money and corporate interests too much, instead of or at the expense of the public or the common good.
Jura The idiot
General
not sure if it's directed towards me, but I'll pick it up anyway:
in this forum I've been hearing opinions suggesting Journalists; GAO; DOT&E; Obama; "people with agenda" were to be blamed for the USN projects, while in fact USN Admirals are responsible for the USN projects!
I joined the SDF four and a half years ago, and even back then projects like LCS and Zumwalt were dubious (OK I'm saying this in hindsight, and for example I wouldn't have thought it possible not to use etc.); now years have passed and things got worse
(there's a link Today at 11:04 AM about pretty much nonexistent LCS mission modules after ten or so hulls were commissioned! oh and the Zumwalts
Jan 7, 2018
the Admirals came up with a new mission, but what are they going to shoot:
huh?)
LOL perhaps I post "negativity", but I don't blame journalists for what's going on in the USN (the same for the RN, where I'm even more critical)
I veered off topic of
PLAN Type 054 FFG Thread II
so I stop
I don’t see any resemblance the type 54A has to the La Fayette, the 054 heavily influenced by the French frigate pioneering stealth design, yes but no connection to it.
The resemblance is only from a broad sense.
But I don't think its about the appearance, but the very concept of a light but multi role, independent, ocean going warship that is more than just an ASW specialized vessel. The La Fayette class is probably the originator of the trend of modern stealthy Euro-frigate of today.
The sudden presence of this ship in Taiwan with the ROCN, and its consequent deep impression to the PLAN, likely inspired the Type 054.
Project 17 Shivalik reminds me more of the Type 054A, but is full of design whys --- no VLS for medium ranged SAMs, two S-band radars, VLS only for short ranged SAMs, etc,. Admiral Grigorovich is another that I see might have some vague similarity.
Admiral Grigorovich.
Project 17 Shivalik
054 was using French radars, French propulsion, French software. There has to be formal tech transfer deal involved. 054A uses more domestic systems. And I agree, it is not far fetched to think Russia offered help, too.
The ROCN's introduction of La Fayette class was a major scandal, with a total of 500 million USD paid as bribes. If you trust Taiwan and France sources, among the 500 million bribe about 40% was to pay off PRC government officials. Not only that, there were more than a dozen mysterious death (suicides, or being suicided) from Taiwan and France. At one point the French foreign minister was saying in public that the bribe was paid to the Taiwan president. It is a too big to fail type of situation so in the end the prosecutors gave up. Taiwan government sued the France shipyard to get back the part of the bribe money.
One direct result was that PRC had some under-the-table deals with France. Some people say those deals directly lead to 054. And Taiwan/France relation soured - since then the only country willing to sell large weapon systems to Taiwan is US.
Someone should make a movie or at least a multi season TV show about it eventually.
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I agree that the Shivalik is a rather ill-conceived design in its current state. The choice of 2 S-band VSRs is truly baffling along with the choice of the Shtil single-arm launcher given its relatively recent design. OTOH there is plenty of room at the bow area for modifying the Shtil to a VL system during its mid-life refit (much like the 051B and Sovs are being modified), and one of the radars could be replaced for a lower frequency, like a SMART-L or something similar. This ship class has a lot of potential but its execution is rather poor.Project 17 Shivalik reminds me more of the Type 054A, but is full of design whys --- no VLS for medium ranged SAMs, two S-band radars, VLS only for short ranged SAMs, etc,. Admiral Grigorovich is another that I see might have some vague similarity.
Project 17 Shivalik
antiterror13
Brigadier
what foreign systems used on Type 054A ?
antiterror13
Brigadier
well, if the diesel engine is considered a "system" .. and also the Shanxi 16 PA6 STC diesels is very similar to French ... will be many Chinese warship use foreign system then ....
