054/A FFG Thread II

[FORBIN]

No 578 right now but finaly 579 Handan yes to Lüshun her homeport, 10th destroyer Flotilla/NSF ( 3 x 051D-DT LudaI/IV, 2 x 054A and 4 x 053H3/ Jiangwei II ), the 19th 054A commissioned the 19 august.

579 for end of year after others in 2016 announced 4.
Ships commissioned have multiple pavilions and in a port, as on this picture.

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[Blitzo]

So if these rumours are true, that means the main difference between the 054A and 054B would be propulsion and weapons.

From the above, my guess is that the 054B will probably be more of a proof-of-concept, transitional, small production run class, similar to the 052B and original 054 classes, rather than be another mainstream 054A class.

In terms of weapons, the biggest change would be to replace the current VLS with the new universal VLS (uVLS), and may serve as a proof of concept design to allow the eventual retrofitting of the uVLS onto the existing 054A fleet (hence the rationale for keeping the tonnage and dimensions similar).

The proposed hybrid electric production is probably because the PLAN isn't fully sold/confident on going fully electric, and/or the technology just isn't mature enough (maybe what the 057 class is most waiting on).

So, to sum up, I think, based on those rumours, that the 054B class will mainly be used to develop technologies for follow on programs.

One will likely be an 054A MLU programme, to retrofit the newer electronics, uVLS and sensors that will be tested and refined on the 054B class onto the existing 054A class. So in effect, the 054A class will probably be brought up to the same standard as the 054B eventually in all aspects bar propulsion.

I think it depends on just how much of a difference there will be in the hull between 054B and 054A. For instance if 054B is as structurally different from 054A as 052D is to 052C, then I'm not confident that many of 054B's expected subsystems (such as new VLS and sensors) makes it onto 054As as MLUs, especially if the new subsystems on 054B are dependent upon those structural changes in the first place.

I'm also not sure if 054B will only be a "transitional" ship class -- after all it is a frigate and maybe the navy might not require complete IEPS on their next generation frigate (compared to say, destroyers) nor require a much increased hull size. It sounds like they're keeping only the hull from 054A (possibly changing it a little) but taking out all the internals of the 054A from propulsion to weapons and sensors, effectively making it a new ship even more than what 052B to 052C was. Let's not forget that all the 052 family used the same propulsion arrangement, while 054B is using a whole new type compared to 054A and 054.

The original post from cjbdy is also a bit self contradictory because if 054B really is meant to have the newest weapons and electronics then it probably will look very different to 054A rather than identical.

 

[JayBird]

I think it depends on just how much of a difference there will be in the hull between 054B and 054A. For instance if 054B is as structurally different from 054A as 052D is to 052C, then I'm not confident that many of 054B's expected subsystems (such as new VLS and sensors) makes it onto 054As as MLUs, especially if the new subsystems on 054B are dependent upon those structural changes in the first place.

I'm also not sure if 054B will only be a "transitional" ship class -- after all it is a frigate and maybe the navy might not require complete IEPS on their next generation frigate (compared to say, destroyers) nor require a much increased hull size. It sounds like they're keeping only the hull from 054A (possibly changing it a little) but taking out all the internals of the 054A from propulsion to weapons and sensors, effectively making it a new ship even more than what 052B to 052C was. Let's not forget that all the 052 family used the same propulsion arrangement, while 054B is using a whole new type compared to 054A and 054.

The original post from cjbdy is also a bit self contradictory because if 054B really is meant to have the newest weapons and electronics then it probably will look very different to 054A rather than identical.

fzgfzy's original words (外观和054A最新新版差不多)

I shouldn't use the word identical in translation for this sentence. The more accurate translation should be (The exterior of 054B looks not much difference compare to 054A.) It sounds like there is in fact some difference between 054A and 054B, just not huge difference.

And one forum member (小吕飞刀 ) draw his interpretation of what fzgfzy said of 054B will look like. (Top is 054A bottom is 054B)

 

[Jeff Head]

This is the first I have herd of, or seen a step in front of the bridge with another type of VLS (8 cells) in it for the Type 054B. The idea being removing the ASMs from amidships quad canisters and placing them there.

We shall see...but I have heard nothing of this before.

 

[JayBird]

This is the first I have herd of, or seen a step in front of the bridge with another type of VLS (8 cells) in it for the Type 054B. The idea being removing the ASMs from amidships quad canisters and placing them there.

We shall see...but I have heard nothing of this before.

I think removing the ASM from amidships to the front of the bridge as VLS part is only the artist's own imagination. fzgfzy never explicitly said the 054B will move the ASM to VLS.

He only say newest weapons (Missile and torpedo) for 054B. Maybe the artist figure the new YJ variant ASM is more efficient as VLS but too long to put in the same area as the old VLS. And decided to improvise by adding the 8 VLS cells in front of the bridge.

 

[Blitzo]

fzgfzy's original words (外观和054A最新新版差不多)

I shouldn't use the word identical in translation for this sentence. The more accurate translation should be (The exterior of 054B looks not much difference compare to 054A.) It sounds like there is in fact some difference between 054A and 054B, just not huge difference.

And one forum member (小吕飞刀 ) draw his interpretation of what fzgfzy said of 054B will look like. (Top is 054A bottom is 054B)

View attachment 17807

I mean, I personally expect the mast and the topside electronics to change and for the 32 cell VLS to be a 32 common VLS... those alone would make 054B look quite different to 054A. The original post itself says it will use newest weapons and electronics, suggesting weapons and sensor suite. So if they really are the newest then 054B will have substantial differences.

Maybe fzgfzy's definition of "not much" is different to mine.

 

[tphuang]

i think unless the propulsion really changes, there is not much more you can add to the 054's hull without making it even slower. If they do indeed get to electric propulsion, then it seems to allow them to pack more while retaining or even improving speed.

 

[JayBird]

i think unless the propulsion really changes, there is not much more you can add to the 054's hull without making it even slower. If they do indeed get to electric propulsion, then it seems to allow them to pack more while retaining or even improving speed.

That's exactly what they are claiming about 054B, it will have improved speed and much better range because more efficent propulsion than 054A. And one of the reasons ASW capability also much better not just because of new sonar and new torpedo, but because of the better speed to chase the subs and quieter at the same time.

 

[antiterror13]

That's exactly what they are claiming about 054B, it will have improved speed and much better range because more efficent propulsion than 054A. And one of the reasons ASW capability also much better not just because of new sonar and new torpedo, but because of the better speed to chase the subs and quieter at the same time.

where did you get the info about new propulsion ? will the new propulsion is CODAG instead of CODAD ? wondering what gas turbine engine to be used? smaller version of QC-280?

 

[JayBird]

where did you get the info about new propulsion ? will the new propulsion is CODAG instead of CODAD ? wondering what gas turbine engine to be used? smaller version of QC-280?

It's mainly from fzgfzy 054B thread on CJDBY that I give link to eariler. The information are from their subsequent conversation about 054B. There is always lots of people asking him more questions, and sometimes he answer few of the questions. And the other moderator 流泪手心 also does that as well. There is about 2-3 thread on 054B that is interesting over there. I don't post there, but I would go check their forum whenever I'm bored here.