054/A FFG Thread II

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
I'll paste myself from another topic.

From what I gathered, the limit of how many missiles can an illuminator guide is purely arbitrary. In some literature one can read about two missiles per illuminator, sometimes it even states two targets are illuminated by one illuminator while guiding two missiles. But nowhere did i find a description of mechanics. People who claim to be in the know have told me (but i've no way of verifying that) it really boils down to this (and it makes sense to me): Every mechanically steered illuminator has a single beam for terminal interception. It is fairy focused, but over long distances (10-20 km) it spreads out enough that it is perfectly possible for that beam to illuminate two or even more incoming targets.

Some issues arise: Since those illuminator beams are continuous wave illumination, there is really no data about distance, range, heading itd. All that isn't so important anymore because we're talking about last few seconds of interception and one assumes distances are already quite small. If two targets are one next to another, missile has to know how to pick one target over another. If one target is closer than the other, then i *assume* the amount of emission that gets picked up by the missile can be interpreted in such a way that missile can pick the closer or farther targer.

Real issue is this: if two missiles are flying towards two targets and there is just one illuminator that paints both targets: how do those missiles know which one is supposed to intercept which target? One obvious solution is continued assistance by ship's other systems. Perhaps SPY radar can continue sending updates and keep each missile on path to each target. But that sort of defeats the whole purpose of guidance radar/illuminator radar combo.

I was told in reality the two targets per illuminator either isn't really used or isn't counted on OR it is used in specific situations where targets are sequential, not parallel. Meaning One target is for example 20 km from ship, other target is more or less in the same line and illuminator doesn't have to move, but is behind it, 25 km from the ship. Two (or more) missiles are fired, also sequentially. Then if the first missile brings down the first target, the illuminator just goes on with its job, the second missile just goes on flying and tries to down the second target.

While that mechanic doesn't seem terribly useful, it can be useful for older types of AAW systems where the number of midcourse update channels is small or when there is so many targets that even newer systems would welcome the relief and instead of them guiding the missiles in midcourse, the illuminator is used to, in effect, guide the second missile to second target. Of course, all this makes sense in very specific situations where distances between targets are just right and there's not much wastage time wise.

But, like I said, one really can't count on two or more targets being illuminated by a single beam. Enemies will perhaps make the attacks so it comes from sufficienly different angles or group them so the illuminator will have a hard time picking the right one. For all intents and purposes, burkes are often meant to really do target just three targets per cycle.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
54a22.jpg

The two dotted lines are, when i look at the images of 054a more, likelier limit for the rear illuminators. so the final outcome would be that the 3 illuminators would cross their limit lines a bit farther away from the bow of the ship and the angle would be somewhat narrower than showed in the image.

still, in theory there seem to be 4 spots where 3 illuminators could do low level work. especially the two spots at the stern of the ship seem broad enough to be useful.

there may be an issue of illuminator beams overlapping, but that depends a lot on their precision and beam width. it may also not be an issue.

seeing this image, and also seeing how the missile tracking radar (on top of the smaller mast) is better positioned to do work when stern of the ship is turned towards the threat, it would appear plausible that the best overall position for selfdefence of 54a is turning the stern of the ship towards the incoming missile/s. Not straight on the stern but also a bit on the side.

added benefit of showing that part of the ship towards the missiles would be somewhat lower radar cross section and offering, relativley speaking, less crucial parts of the ship to be hit/damaged by the missiles. The latter was also a deliberate tactic in the Falkland war, where british captains turned their rears towards the enemy ordenance.

of course, all that might work against saturation attack from a rather narrow angle. if multiple missiles come from multiple directions, then ship manouvering adds little help. But at the same time, splitting the missiles to multiple directions may offer better allocation of assets, perhaps having 2 illuminators defending against one set of targets and 2 more against an another set of targets. That way all the illuminators may be employed, whereas in saturation from one direction scenario only 2 or 3 illuminators may be employed, as shown by the image.

Tieing into what i said in my previous post, allocating missiles to attack from a single, narrow direction, may also enable the defender to paint more than one target with a single illuminator, again enabling him to defend more efficiently. thus it may be more prudent to spread the missiles over a slightly broader area of attack, separating them enough so illuminator can paint just a single missile but at the same time keeping the missiles close enough so no more than 2 or 3 illuminators can be used in the conflict.
 

steve_rolfe

Junior Member
Well according to what i've seen on other forums and what info has been released by HSH today.............apparently HP shipyard as of today 28/09/2013 has launched an 054A Frigate, pennant no. 576 apparently named 'Huangshi'

HSH also clarified that HD shipyard will also be launching an 054A Frigate itself on the 30th Sept.......not sure which no. this one is, i'am losing count on the 054A's.

Anyway.....i'am sure this info will become clearer in the next few days!
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Well according to what i've seen on other forums and what info has been released by HSH today.............apparently HP shipyard as of today 28/09/2013 has launched an 054A Frigate, pennant no. 576 apparently named 'Huangshi'

HSH also clarified that HD shipyard will also be launching an 054A Frigate itself on the 30th Sept.......not sure which no. this one is, i'am losing count on the 054A's.

Anyway.....i'am sure this info will become clearer in the next few days!

Man! the PLAN is churning these out like the USN was churning out the Perrys in the 1980s
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Well, not really. :D in period from 1981 to 1984, 36 Perrys were built and comissioned, on average 9 per year. I don't know when that sort of production peak will be surpassed anywhere in the world again, considering it is a 4000 ton vessel.
 

franco-russe

Senior Member
...HP shipyard as of today 28/09/2013 has launched an 054A Frigate, pennant no. 576 apparently named 'Huangshi'

HSH also clarified that HD shipyard will also be launching an 054A Frigate itself on the 30th Sept.......not sure which no. this one is, i'am losing count on the 054A's.

Anyway.....i'am sure this info will become clearer in the next few days!

It was pretty clear already (see e.g. post # 2398: 576 HUANGSHI is HP 9, No. 18 overall, and the launch on 30 September will be of HD 10, No. 19 overall.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
So, with the launch on Sept. 30th, there will be 19 Type 054As in the water. Does anyone know it's pennant number? Does anyone know the pennant number of #17, launched on April 28th of this year?

Here are the 19:

PLAN Type 054A Frigates by Pennant Number

FFG 529 Zhoushan,2006-1221, HP
FFG 530 Xuzhou, 2006-0930, HD
FFG 538 Yantai, 2010-0824, HP
FFG 546 Yancheng, 2011-0427, HD
FFG 547 Linyi, 2011-1213, HP
FFG 548 Yiyang, 2009-1117, HP
FFG 549 Changzhou,2010-0520, HD
FFG 550 Weifang, 2012-0709, HD
FFG 568 Hengyang,2007-0523, HD
FFG 569 Yulin, 2009-0428, HD
FFG 570 Huangshan, 2007-0318,HP
FFG 571 Yuncheng, 2009-0208, HP
FFG 572 HengShui, 2011-0521 HP
FFG 573 Liuzhou, 2011-1210 HD
FFG 574 Shaoyang, 2012-1130 HD
FFG 575 Yueyang, 2012-0509 HP
FFG 576 Huangshi, 2013-0928 HP
FFG 577(?) Sanmexia(?), 2013-0428 HP
FFG 578(?) Unnamed, 2013-0930 HD
 
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