054/A FFG Thread II
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Just wondering what kind of VLS system the new FFG will have, one which can launch assortment of missiles I guess
Recently many nations have built overseas bases and France seems to be the major European power that has seem the most success with naval bases from West coast of Africa to UAE, this is from 2009
News in February 2013 Warship mgazine is now that the Royal Navy is thinking of relieving some of the pressure off the US 5th fleet in the Persian Gulf and stationing its soon to be Queen Elizabeth carrier in the Persian Gulf in 2020 along with full complement of airwing and carrier escorts which includes the world best AAW combatant the Type 45 DDG
However Americans have said for this to happen the Type 45 needs to be upgraded with anti-ballistic missile technology, because of the Iranian missile threat, something which is now under consideration by UK
It might turn out that UK even adds in Tomahawk and ABM to its fleet of DDG which would be great news
So question comes to mind, which oversea country will house a Chinese naval fleet? Gwader anyone, Karachi can provide the overhaul and repair ability for Chinese warships too which would be beneficial to China, it's very strategic location
A Flotilla of Chinese warships in another country would be a exciting development in the future and allow it a quick reaction force to any threat to Chinese interests in the region, showing military muscle is a important deterrence which fulfills foreign policy's
Recently many nations have built overseas bases and France seems to be the major European power that has seem the most success with naval bases from West coast of Africa to UAE, this is from 2009
News in February 2013 Warship mgazine is now that the Royal Navy is thinking of relieving some of the pressure off the US 5th fleet in the Persian Gulf and stationing its soon to be Queen Elizabeth carrier in the Persian Gulf in 2020 along with full complement of airwing and carrier escorts which includes the world best AAW combatant the Type 45 DDG
However Americans have said for this to happen the Type 45 needs to be upgraded with anti-ballistic missile technology, because of the Iranian missile threat, something which is now under consideration by UK
It might turn out that UK even adds in Tomahawk and ABM to its fleet of DDG which would be great news
So question comes to mind, which oversea country will house a Chinese naval fleet? Gwader anyone, Karachi can provide the overhaul and repair ability for Chinese warships too which would be beneficial to China, it's very strategic location
A Flotilla of Chinese warships in another country would be a exciting development in the future and allow it a quick reaction force to any threat to Chinese interests in the region, showing military muscle is a important deterrence which fulfills foreign policy's
Schumacher
Senior Member
Seychelles ?
plawolf
Lieutenant General
The UK has taken some flack from the US over the years, but this really takes the biscuit.
UK: 'Hey US, let us do you a massive favour and effectively dedicate our surface fleet to help you contain Iran, who incidentally has no real beef with the UK, and help you save loads of money as that's an entire carrier battle group that will be freed up.'
US: 'For the privilege of being allowed to help us out, you need to cough up a blank cheque for our defence contractors to charge you as many billions as they feel they can get away with to add an ABM capacity that you would not otherwise need, and which would be effectively worthless to you for any other mission.'
The UK desperately need to learn to stand up for itself and tell the US to go do anatomically improbable things to itself from time to time and stop being so pathetically sacred the yanks might dump them. Currently the UK is playing the beat up wife role to protection and selling itself woefully short. The Americans need the British a lot more than vice versa right now, and if the UK stood up for itself over an issue where the yanks are taking liberties and the sitting US president tried to play hardball, the UK can tell them to shove the 'special relationship' up the proverbial and the shock of it will unseat the party in power comes the next US election and the next guy in the Oval will make repairing the special relationship a top priority and the UK might actually get some benefits out of the special relationship for a change.
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Definitely the new CCL VLS.
That frigate looks like it can hold two 8 cell modules, which would not be a bad loadout for a frigate tbh.
They can quad pack the 50km DK-10 for 32 of the SAMs, and 8 cells can be allocated for ASROC type weapons or even longer range SAM or LACMs.
Though naturally I expect any 054B to feature four 8 cell modules at least, probably on a larger, non-054-derived hull.
Oh come on, plawolf...lighten up a bit.
The UK is considering the BMD update for their vessels in any case and have talked about it apart from this mission.
In addition, for decades the US has ponied up and provided the carrier battle groups for the NATO and the UK and Europe on a massive scale. Now the UK is going to have such a group and is making this offer. I am glad to see the UK making such an offer and respect them for it.
I do not believe the US can or will somehow "force" the UK to an BMD upgrade. It sounds more like a suggestion for the safety of the battle group in that particular environment. And I expect if they want or need US support in that...then they will look to get something of value in return...like maybe getting their F-35Bs more quickly. Who knows?
And...on top of all of that, a BMD upgrade makes good sense. My guess is that in the coming years there are going to be more nations acquiring the technology and capability rather than fewer. North Korea has...Iran is headed that way...who else will? The truth is we just don't know and not having any defense in that regard will make such a group an inviting target in a crisis. That is precisely why the UK is considering this upgrade in any case.
So, I would not characterize this as some kind of beaten wife relationship. It's one ally giving advise to another who is stepping up to the plate and making an offer. No need to get too worked up about it IMHO.
But those are just my own two cents.
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I would not group Formidable class together with the original La Fayette (even more so for the Kang Ding). The difference between these ships is as great if not greater than F22P vs 054 vs 054A. (though F22P is 053H3 based, it's size and armament is comparable to 054.)
I would expect 4 x 8 cell CCL with minimum modification of the hull (just stretching the hull for 2 meters seems to be enough). The HQ16s are huge missiles, the VLS on 052D doesn't seem significantly larger than the one on 054A.
Mysterre
Banned Idiot
This is what I imagine the 054B would roughly look like. I do see two problems with this design. The B position looks like it has a 4x8 bank of VLS with 8 cells going from port to starboard instead of bow to stern like in the current 054A. This is pretty much impossible unless the 054B is a wider design. If the ship is a true "054B" it would be an evolution of the 054 hull, which probably would not involve a massive redesign like it would take to widen the hull.054B, 054A+++, or Just A Wet Dream?
The other problem is that there is a radar that looks like the FCR for the main gun. If the main mast contains a forward-facing AESA panel like the one we can see facing port, then there is no need for this FCR. There is a potential utility for the troposcatter Mineral ME copy that all the new PLAN ships have, so it should replace the gun FCR at this location. Otherwise this 054B looks pretty good with 40 VLS + 18(?) HQ-10 + 8 YJ-62's and 1 or maybe even 2 ASW helos.
If you take a 2x4 CCL module (let's call 2 the "width" and 4 the "length") and compare it to a 2x4 Mk 41-type VLS, you can easily see that the width would not increase much, if at all, because of the presence of the vent in the middle of the Mk 41 module that would no longer be present in the CCL module and could soak up some expansion of the cells width-wise. The length, however, would definitely increase.
This brings me to another point. We have all been assuming up to now that the CCL is larger than the Mk 41-style VLS on the 054A. Well I have been doing some more comparisons of the hinges on the CCL and the Mk 41-style VLS..... and it looks like they could be exactly the same size. The hinge styles are exactly the same, down to the locations of the bolts themselves! The ratio of the hinges (red) to the lids (yellow) are exactly the same. Have a look at this:
There are 3 possibilities that I can think of:
1. The CCL hinges are proportionally larger. This to me borders on the ridiculous given how basically identical both hinges appear to be.
2. The second CJDBY image is PSed from 054A images and clobbered together to create an image of a CCL module. I don't think this is likely either given this image looks fairly convincing to my eyes.
3. The CCL and Mk41-style VLS lids are exactly the same size. Prove me wrong.
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