052C/052D Class Destroyers

Max Demian said:

You are right there. However, I think he meant receiver/exciter not LNA. The way I understood it, signals from LNAs are combined and sent to one of a small number of REX units.

Now that I think about it, if an element has full transmit/receive, processing and waveform generation circuitry then it is a radar in itself. An AESA built out of such elements would constitute a multistatic radar. Don’t you agree?

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To continue and conclude what I'm trying to say, there are different kinds of AESA modules but there are two distinct groups. One has an analog RX/TX on its I/O connector and other has a completely digital bus. The latter connects only to a databus. What you're describing is the former. There are examples for both cases.

and the second .

China commission 2 new type 52D recently according to GT. any one keep tally ? I thought last time around it was 14 . So now 16? How did GT come with 20? maybe including Type 52C?
China currently operates about 20 modern, aegis-type destroyers, and in four to five years the number will increase to 40, including six Type 052Cs, 25 to 26 Type 052Ds and eight Type 055s, The Diplomat magazine reported in July.

Two new guided missile destroyers enter Chinese naval service
By Liu Xuanzun Source: Global Times Published: 2020/10/12 15:53:40


The guided-missile destroyer Hohhot (Hull 161) attached to a destroyer flotilla with the navy under the PLA Southern Theater Command steams in waters of the South China Sea during a realistic maritime training exercise in early August, 2020. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Li Wei)

Two new and advanced guided missile destroyers have recently entered service with the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy, official reports show. This takes the tally of new destroyers that have been commissioned into the PLA Navy this year known to the general public up to four, which analysts said shows a strong momentum of growth for the PLA Navy amid external instability and pressure.

A destroyer unit recently conducted live-fire exercises for main gun shooting and damage control in an undisclosed sea region in celebration of the 71st anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China on October 1, according to a video attached to a post on the Sina Weibo account of the PLA North China Sea Fleet last week.

The video footage shows for the first time a warship with the hull number 121, which is a Type 052D guided missile destroyer. Military observers have speculated that it is named the Qiqihar, after a city in Northeast China's Heilongjiang Province.

Another new destroyer, the Tangshan, with the hull number 122, made its debut to the general public in another report by js7tv.cn, a video news website affiliated with the PLA, in late September.

According to the report footage, the Tangshan is a Type 052DL guided missile destroyer, which is reportedly the latest variant of the Type 052D characterized by an extended helicopter flight deck and a larger anti-stealth radar. It was conducting damage control training, the report said.

The fact that they are painted with hull numbers, have engaged in training exercises and have been featured in official military media reports all indicate that these two new destroyers have likely already entered service with the PLA Navy, analysts said.

Including these two destroyers, the PLA Navy has now commissioned at least four destroyers in 2020. In January, it commissioned the Nanchang, the country's first 10,000 ton-class Type 055 destroyer, and the Zibo, the first Type 052DL variant, according to media reports.

With instability all around the world and increasing military pressure from countries like the US, China needs to develop its naval forces to safeguard its sovereignty, territorial integrity and national interests, a Beijing-based expert on military affairs told the Global Times on condition of anonymity on Monday.

The commissioning of four destroyers this year showed a strong momentum of growth for the PLA Navy, and more warships, including destroyers and amphibious assault ships, are expected to join military service soon, the expert said.

China currently operates about 20 modern, aegis-type destroyers, and in four to five years the number will increase to 40, including six Type 052Cs, 25 to 26 Type 052Ds and eight Type 055s, The Diplomat magazine reported in July.

China has also launched two Type 075 amphibious assault ships, the first in September 2019 and the second in April this year.

Hendrik_2000 said:

China commission 2 new type 52D recently according to GT. any one keep tally ? I thought last time around it was 14 . So now 16? How did GT come with 20? maybe including Type 52C?
China currently operates about 20 modern, aegis-type destroyers, and in four to five years the number will increase to 40, including six Type 052Cs, 25 to 26 Type 052Ds and eight Type 055s, The Diplomat magazine reported in July.

Two new guided missile destroyers enter Chinese naval service
By Liu Xuanzun Source: Global Times Published: 2020/10/12 15:53:40

The guided-missile destroyer Hohhot (Hull 161) attached to a destroyer flotilla with the navy under the PLA Southern Theater Command steams in waters of the South China Sea during a realistic maritime training exercise in early August, 2020. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Li Wei)

Two new and advanced guided missile destroyers have recently entered service with the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy, official reports show. This takes the tally of new destroyers that have been commissioned into the PLA Navy this year known to the general public up to four, which analysts said shows a strong momentum of growth for the PLA Navy amid external instability and pressure.

A destroyer unit recently conducted live-fire exercises for main gun shooting and damage control in an undisclosed sea region in celebration of the 71st anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China on October 1, according to a video attached to a post on the Sina Weibo account of the PLA North China Sea Fleet last week.

The video footage shows for the first time a warship with the hull number 121, which is a Type 052D guided missile destroyer. Military observers have speculated that it is named the Qiqihar, after a city in Northeast China's Heilongjiang Province.

Another new destroyer, the Tangshan, with the hull number 122, made its debut to the general public in another report by js7tv.cn, a video news website affiliated with the PLA, in late September.

According to the report footage, the Tangshan is a Type 052DL guided missile destroyer, which is reportedly the latest variant of the Type 052D characterized by an extended helicopter flight deck and a larger anti-stealth radar. It was conducting damage control training, the report said.

The fact that they are painted with hull numbers, have engaged in training exercises and have been featured in official military media reports all indicate that these two new destroyers have likely already entered service with the PLA Navy, analysts said.

Including these two destroyers, the PLA Navy has now commissioned at least four destroyers in 2020. In January, it commissioned the Nanchang, the country's first 10,000 ton-class Type 055 destroyer, and the Zibo, the first Type 052DL variant, according to media reports.

With instability all around the world and increasing military pressure from countries like the US, China needs to develop its naval forces to safeguard its sovereignty, territorial integrity and national interests, a Beijing-based expert on military affairs told the Global Times on condition of anonymity on Monday.

The commissioning of four destroyers this year showed a strong momentum of growth for the PLA Navy, and more warships, including destroyers and amphibious assault ships, are expected to join military service soon, the expert said.

China currently operates about 20 modern, aegis-type destroyers, and in four to five years the number will increase to 40, including six Type 052Cs, 25 to 26 Type 052Ds and eight Type 055s, The Diplomat magazine reported in July.

China has also launched two Type 075 amphibious assault ships, the first in September 2019 and the second in April this year.

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Both 121 Qiqihar and 122 Tangshan are with the 10th Destroyer Division, formerly joked by netizens as the "old man's home" of the PLAN. Now the PLAN is turning the 10th into a frontline fighting force. You can see this with other events:

120 Chengdu is seen with drills and exercises with 101 Nanchang.

119 Guiyang is the first destroyer of this division to ever lead a Gulf of Aden task force mission.

At least two more 052DL currently fitting in Dalian are destined for the 10th, with reserved penannts 123 and 124.

In other news, 131 Taiyuan has returned from Gulf of Aden. The 3rd Destroyer Division is another flotilla that is being modernized, with previous ships being Ludas and the four Sovremennys. 131 Taiyuan is the first 052D for this division. This ship has just returned from its Gulf of Aden escort mission, which is also a first for this division, with the next task force mission led by 119 Guiyang. 132 Suzhou is a 052DL built in Jiangnan and will be the next ship headed for the 3rd division, sometime late in this year. So we can expect one more destroyer commissioning in the PLAN before the year ends. Two more 052DL from Jiangnan currently fitting or in trials will be assigned with the 3rd, with reserved penannts 133 and 134.

Photo courtesy of the PDF.

Check out this video in DCS combat simulator. They modeled Type-052C and also 054-A. This video is about 052C fighting 054A.

Atleast according to DCS sim,052C has awesome radars and sensors and its very hard to beat for planes and ships.

tamsen_ikard said:

Check out this video in DCS combat simulator. They modeled Type-052C and also 054-A. This video is about 052C fighting 054A.

Atleast according to DCS sim,052C has awesome radars and sensors and its very hard to beat for planes and ships.

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Do you have the game?

I saw that they model HHQ-9A as semi-active/TVM.

According to what we know of the radar, it is more likely that the missiles have active homing only. The C-band panels in Type 346 are neither radars nor illuminators. Rather they handle the uplink/downlink communication with the missile.

Max Demian said:

Do you have the game?

I saw that they model HHQ-9A as semi-active/TVM.

According to what we know of the radar, it is more likely that the missiles have active homing only. The C-band panels in Type 346 are neither radars nor illuminators. Rather they handle the uplink/downlink communication with the missile.

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Indeed, there is also an interesting conversation right there. Thunderbolt Lightning should get it right, while Firestorm here is regurgitating the same flawed information Jane's has been propagating for years.

Tam said:

Indeed, there is also an interesting conversation right there. Thunderbolt Lightning should get it right, while Firestorm here is regurgitating the same flawed information Jane's has been propagating for years.


View attachment 64575

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Why do you think TL is definitely wrong? I know it's stupid to believe a random internet claim of knowing insiders etc but is there something else that you mean?

tamsen_ikard said:

Check out this video in DCS combat simulator. They modeled Type-052C and also 054-A. This video is about 052C fighting 054A.

Atleast according to DCS sim,052C has awesome radars and sensors and its very hard to beat for planes and ships.

Click to expand...

Not sure if I agree with the gunfire there. The 054A uses the Type 347 radar for the gunfire --- this is the same radar that is used on the CIWS. So this thing is very precise and has a very fast tracking rate, probably even track the shells from the 052C to determine more accurately where the 052C is, not to mention the splashes of the shells from its own 76mm. Type 347 probably gets the better of the Type 344 in terms of accuracy and tracking, while the Type 344 has the advantage in range. If the 052C stays outside of the Type 054A's 76mm gun's range, it should be able to pelt the 054A to pieces. But if the 054A gets closer, the firing rate of the 76mm will cheese the 052C.

Another thing is that both has the potential to use their SAMs as antiship missiles of convenience. To enable that capability it would only take software addition. If used this manner, the HQ-9 has as much warhead as a YJ-83 with 165kg warhead and that should really hurt. The HQ-16 has 70kg which is no slouch, but there is fewer of them and up against a bigger hull. As the PLAN has not officially confirmed such capability, we can leave these out for now.

I have been trying to align the labels for the ESM, I think the chart might get it wrong. Type 726-1 should be the SRW-210, which is the export name of it. Type 726-5 might be the two larger ESM units behind the Type 366 radar.

The two large domes under the Type 517 are SATCOMs. The two Type 366-2 units, which are ESM or passive directional finders supporting the Type 366 radar, are two smaller domes near these SATCOMs and also underneath the The 517, but the CG model failed to include these two smaller domes.

ougoah said:

Why do you think TL is definitely wrong? I know it's stupid to believe a random internet claim of knowing insiders etc but is there something else that you mean?

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No, I think TL is right, and Firestorm is wrong.

Also after all these years, the earlier HHQ-9A should have been expended in tests and exercises, and I doubt they would continue to build the obsolete model just to replenish the 052C. It does not make logistical sense. Once you have started building the newer version, all your new builds are the newer version to standardize your logistics, and if the 052C finally uses up all the existing stock of HHQ-9A, it should transition to using the HHQ-9B or C, or whatever the 052D is using right now. To enable the 052C to use the newer HHQ-9, this should be a matter of a software upgrade.

If the organization like the 6th and the 9th Destroyer Division uses both 052C and 052D, it makes sense if you standardize on the same missile for both ships instead of having separate HHQ-9 versions for both.

Tam said:

Not sure if I agree with the gunfire there. The 054A uses the Type 347 radar for the gunfire --- this is the same radar that is used on the CIWS. So this thing is very precise and has a very fast tracking rate, probably even track the shells from the 052C to determine more accurately where the 052C is, not to mention the splashes of the shells from its own 76mm. Type 347 probably gets the better of the Type 344 in terms of accuracy and tracking, while the Type 344 has the advantage in range. If the 052C stays outside of the Type 054A's 76mm gun's range, it should be able to pelt the 054A to pieces. But if the 054A gets closer, the firing rate of the 76mm will cheese the 052C.

Another thing is that both has the potential to use their SAMs as antiship missiles of convenience. To enable that capability it would only take software addition. If used this manner, the HQ-9 has as much warhead as a YJ-83 with 165kg warhead and that should really hurt. The HQ-16 has 70kg which is no slouch, but there is fewer of them and up against a bigger hull. As the PLAN has not officially confirmed such capability, we can leave these out for now.

I have been trying to align the labels for the ESM, I think the chart might get it wrong. Type 726-1 should be the SRW-210, which is the export name of it. Type 726-5 might be the two larger ESM units behind the Type 366 radar.

The two large domes under the Type 517 are SATCOMs. The two Type 366-2 units, which are ESM or passive directional finders supporting the Type 366 radar, are two smaller domes near these SATCOMs and also underneath the The 517, but the CG model failed to include these two smaller domes.

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Going to rework on the labeling of the ESM units, and check if the smaller ESM unit is labeled 726-5 and not 726-1. This ESM unit is what you find on the Type 056/056A and on the Type 071.