052C/052D Class Destroyers

Hendrik_2000 said:

I mean photos of commissioning ceremony I know the photos of the ship with pennant number exists But it might still be on trial
Here is the latest Hohot 161 no 10 It could be in service who know but no commissioning ceremony

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but it's not a commissioning ceremony, rather the ceremony for the honorarily discharged sailors.

Are these ships meant to fulfil a destroyer role or are they more similar to frigates?

The rather small number of VLS combined with strong sensors suggest that 052s are more of a FREMM equivalent than a full sized destroyer like the 055s.

Biscuits said:

Are these ships meant to fulfil a destroyer role or are they more similar to frigates?

The rather small number of VLS combined with strong sensors suggest that 052s are more of a FREMM equivalent than a full sized destroyer like the 055s.

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Define what you see as a qualitive difference between them.
Quantitive measurements are a sufficient reason only if number of cells is clearly not enough for something specific.
For all destroyer roles(including area defence), 052 carries more than enough.

Gloire_bb said:

Define what you see as a qualitive difference between them.
Quantitive measurements are a sufficient reason only if number of cells is clearly not enough for something specific.
For all destroyer roles(including area defence), 052 carries more than enough.

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Modern frigates tend to displace between 4000-7000tons while most destroyers are 8700+. That puts the 052D more in frigate size.

Frigates tend to be more focused towards individual tasks while destroyers are all around ships. 052D has a very strong ASuW salvo and good AAW, but it’s ASW is lacking. It also doesn’t use the 055s dual band radar, since it is not primarily designed to defend high value ships.

Having a very large armament (for a frigate) lets it bully other frigates and present a serious threat to destroyers, essentially like the “fast battleships” in WW2.

But it wouldn’t make sense to send 64 VLS ships against 96 VLS ships in a slugging match.

Biscuits said:

Are these ships meant to fulfil a destroyer role or are they more similar to frigates?

The rather small number of VLS combined with strong sensors suggest that 052s are more of a FREMM equivalent than a full sized destroyer like the 055s.

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As of now the PLAN seems to be planning for the 052D to form the backbone of its principal surface fleet. With fleet air defense as its main role, while the 055s serve as the flagship and principle land attack ship and the 54As as ASuW screens/secondary air defences.
In short, the 052D's role is very similar to that of the Arleigh Burke of the USN. The only difference being that of weight and vls. But that factor will have to be measured against how many 052Ds China will actually procure.

If PLAN intends for the 052D to be the workhorses of the fleet they need to significantly beef up her ASW capabilities. The biggest threat to any carrier battle group and other capital ships comes not from the air but below the surface. If I run PLAN I would channel more resources to ASW which no doubt continues to be their achilles heel.

Biscuits said:

Modern frigates tend to displace between 4000-7000tons while most destroyers are 8700+. That puts the 052D more in frigate size.

Frigates tend to be more focused towards individual tasks while destroyers are all around ships. 052D has a very strong ASuW salvo and good AAW, but it’s ASW is lacking. It also doesn’t use the 055s dual band radar, since it is not primarily designed to defend high value ships.

Having a very large armament (for a frigate) lets it bully other frigates and present a serious threat to destroyers, essentially like the “fast battleships” in WW2.

But it wouldn’t make sense to send 64 VLS ships against 96 VLS ships in a slugging match.

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And we got 15000 plus ships (Zumwalt) try to pass itself off as a destroyer. Or the Ticonderoga which weights just as much as a Burke but one is classified as a "cruiser" and the other a "destroyer". Deadweight has long since cease to be a credible measure of what class a naval ship belongs to.
In terms of ASW, the Type 052D has yet to prove itself any less capable then what the 055 promise to do. With Universal VLS capable of launching both CJ-10s and YJ-18s (the same type of VLS found on the 055), it can boast a rather capable ASW suit.

kwaigonegin said:

If PLAN intends for the 052D to be the workhorses of the fleet they need to significantly beef up her ASW capabilities. The biggest threat to any carrier battle group and other capital ships comes not from the air but below the surface. If I run PLAN I would channel more resources to ASW which no doubt continues to be their achilles heel.

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Well the 052D pretty much ticks all the boxes for ASuW, with a full suit of all known sonar arrays and the standard ASuW helicopter. The only criticism that can be levied against it is that it only carries one helicopter. Personally I would have ensure that the 052D's final design includes a double hanger. But the 052D does exceed expectations in the ASuW regard, especially when there are other more expensive destroyers that completely lack this critical aspect of naval warfare (hint Daring hint).

Viktor Jav said:

As of now the PLAN seems to be planning for the 052D to form the backbone of its principal surface fleet. With fleet air defense as its main role, while the 055s serve as the flagship and principle land attack ship and the 54As as ASuW screens/secondary air defences.
In short, the 052D's role is very similar to that of the Arleigh Burke of the USN. The only difference being that of weight and vls. But that factor will have to be measured against how many 052Ds China will actually procure.

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I don’t see the 055 being a flagship. The US has 20 Ticonderoga for 10 carriers and 10 amphib ships. China will have at least 8 055s for 2 carriers and maybe 1-2 amphib ships. That looks more like general escort ship.

Frigates are defined by being more focused on a single role. 052Ds are primarily anti surface ships that happen to have AEGIS level sensors, but does not have the sheer number of AAW missiles to actually provide AEGIS level cover.

052Ds can give cover for 054s on sub hunting missions and chase away enemy frigates. But covering a high priority target such as a carrier...? Sending 3 052Ds against 3 Burkes seem like a foregone conclusion. Especially because there are 2-3 Burkes for every 052.

The 055 is more reliable since it can make up for eventual numerical inferiority with size and tech.

Viktor Jav said:

ASuW

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ASW
ASuW is reserved for surface warfare

But it wouldn’t make sense to send 64 VLS ships against 96 VLS ships in a slugging match

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No one fights at sea this way. Youtube channels, maybe.
Typical norm(with mathematical basis behind it) for group AAW mission is 48 cells, anything above means what you're something very large and acting as a reserve, or you're seriously considered to be detacheable for independent missions in hostile waters(read: you are a cruiser).

Simply because no one will be so kind to let you gradually use your missile stock. You either can defend, or attacker is capable of amassing such a salvo what you will simply bring more unused missiles down with you.* Most likely, though, it means what your ship or task force happened to be somewhere where it must not be to begin with.

Not AAW-intended ships(even with a long reach) recently found a new "sweet spot" at just 16 cells.

And here we have a 052D with its 64 fully universal cells.