052C/052D Class Destroyers

watdahek said:

... Anyone got other photos of VLS multi launch action? Please post them in appropriate sub forums and summon me there if you do! (whether its burke/tico or ddg from other China or other nations). ...

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LOL I recalled Jun 29, 2017

Iron Man said:

... I watched a YouTube video a few years ago where the rear VLS bank of a Ticonderoga launched something like 5 missiles from different modules in the space of literally half a second or less, all sequentially, but all within microseconds of each other. ...

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This one?

A second hanger would be a low priority for a second-tier AAW-focused asset like 052D/X. Dual hanger is more important for an ASW-focused frigate design. 052D's hanger could be enlarged somewhat to allow for more flexibility in the type of helicopter carried, however.

Lethe said:

A second hanger would be a low priority for a second-tier AAW-focused asset like 052D/X. Dual hanger is more important for an ASW-focused frigate design. 052D's hanger could be enlarged somewhat to allow for more flexibility in the type of helicopter carried, however.

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IDK, the PLAN is very serious on ASW atm. A dual hanger version of the Type 52D would fit right in with that doctrine, though a larger hanger can also serve to the end by allowing the deployment of more capable helicopters.

hang·er
ˈhaNGər/
noun
noun: hanger; plural noun: hangers; noun: coat hanger; plural noun: coat hangers

1. 1.
   a person who hangs something.
   "a wallpaper hanger"
2. 2.
   a shaped piece of wood, plastic, or metal with a hook at the top, from which clothes may be hung in order to keep them in shape and free of creases.

hang·ar
ˈhaNGər/
noun
noun: hangar; plural noun: hangars

1. 1.
   a large building with extensive floor area, typically for housing aircraft.

In any case I expect the 052E to have 2 hangars unless it sticks very closely to the 052D design. ASW as part of fleet ops are certainly not restricted to those originating from frigates, especially given the limited 3-4 hour endurance of an ASW helo. If you don't have a certain minimum number of available helos to choose from (e.g. 6-7), you will not be able to provide 24 hour ASW helo ops for your task group when SHTF and you need this coverage.

One gun goes one way, the other gun goes the other way: reminds me of that scene from Goodfellas, where Tommy comments on his mother's painting.

Viktor Jav said:

IDK, the PLAN is very serious on ASW atm. A dual hanger version of the Type 52D would fit right in with that doctrine, though a larger hanger can also serve to the end by allowing the deployment of more capable helicopters.

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The only reason for 052X to exist is because it is cheaper than 055. To save money without compromising performance in the primary mission (AAW) too greatly, one should limit niche, secondary or non-core capabilities, such as ASW, long-range strike, etc.

The capability:crew ratio of 052D likely compares poorly with that of 055, where crewing requirements are a major contributor to total lifecycle costs, which only emphasises the importance of maintaining a strong focus for the platform.

Assuming that PLAN gets a frigate with dual hangars to fill the ASW bathtub, of course.

Lethe said:

The only reason for 052X to exist is because it is cheaper than 055. To save money without compromising performance in the primary mission (AAW) too greatly, one should limit niche, secondary or non-core capabilities, such as ASW, long-range strike, etc.

The capability:crew ratio of 052D likely compares poorly with that of 055, where crewing requirements are a major contributor to total lifecycle costs, which only emphasises the importance of maintaining a strong focus for the platform.

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Which capabilities do you mean?

I mean that 055 is unlikely to require >25% more crew than 052D, while it will certainly offer more than 25% additional capability. Unless crew requirements for 052X can be brought down significantly, it will offer comparatively poor capability:crew ratio.

Of course 022 and 056 suffer from the same problem, where an 054 frigate (~160 crew) delivers more capability than two 056s (2x ~80 crew) or four 022s (4x ~40 crew). So long as the required number of hulls can be maintained, big ships deliver more bang for buck, in large part because crew requirements do not scale linearly with capability. This relationship becomes ever more important as wages increase and personnel costs become the single largest input into total lifecycle cost.