052C/052D Class Destroyers
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Outstanding!052D 118
These are beautiful and capable DDGs. And the PLAN is getting a lot of them!
So what, now:
6 Commisisoned
4 in trials
4 Fitting out?
That's 14 of them in the water and more building!
No one on earth outside of the US Navy has as many modern DDGs.
When you add the 6 Type 052Cs, the four SOVs, and the two Type 052Bs...that's 26 very capable DDGs available to the PLAN right now and more coming, both Type 052D and Type 055s!
Not to mention all of those very good, true FFGs the PLAN has.
Amazing buildup.
I don't want to creat any kind of flame war here but smog surely does great for censure and in this (artificial) early winter sunlight adds 2+ points for the looks052D 118
You need to cut your biased mentality out first. This is a tipicle Shanghai winter cloudy sky. Actually the air quality is very good in Shanghai:I don't want to creat any kind of flame war here but smog surely does great for censure and in this (artificial) early winter sunlight adds 2+ points for the looks
Another calculation six 052D capable attack land targets with CJ-10 ( whis is rather a mission for 055 ) for some years double or triple or more... a large and long game have begin and not completely new.
Compared to 052C, the 052D has technically 16 more VL cells, but if you subtract 8 cells to account for the loss of the slant launchers then that's 8 more cells overall. I have always been curious as to what the 052D does with those 8 extra cells. ASW missiles? LACMs? MRSAMs? A mix? Do they vary on the mission or is there a fixed standard 052D loadout? So many questions and nobody who knows the answer....
Keeping your enemies guessing about what mix of missiles your destroyers actually carry might be a real advantage in having a universal VLS.
Actually, the advantage of a UVLS could possibly be far more than is immediately apparent. An 85cm VL cell theoretically could pack 2 HHQ-9s according to my estimations, assuming there is a version of the HHQ-9 that could fold its fins in this manner:
I noted before that the early versions of the S-300 have exactly a 45cm diameter, and all depictions of the HHQ-9 up to now have shown it as being smaller than the S-300, so a double-packed HHQ-9 is almost certainly a viable option if the PLAN chooses to pursue it down the road (or may be doing so already).
A 052D tasked with AAW could look something like this:
72 HHQ-9s in 36 cells
32 MRSAMs in 8 cells
16 YJ-18s in 16 cells
8 CY-5s in 4 cells
24 HHQ-10s in a box launcher
That's more firepower than a Burke and approaches the capabilities of a Tico, in a ship that's around 2/3 the size of either. Armed similarly, a 052E iteration with more juice to power an updated GaN 346X radar (probably even just the same one as on the 055) is easily a viable surface combatant option far into the future of the PLAN.
That's 152 missiles and a heck of a load out.
But, when you start adding Quad Packled ESSMs into Burkes or Tico you can very quickly exceed those numbers.
Imagine this Tico:
26 x 4 ESSM = 104 ESSMs
48 x SM (whatever) = 48 SMs
24 x LRSAM = 24 LRSAMs
32 x Tomohawk whatever= 36 Tomahawks
08 X Harpoons
220 missiles ready to go with 32 antishipping, 36 Land attack, 152 antiair
Or, a Burke with
30 x SM (whatever) - 30 SMs
30 x Tomahawk = 30 Tomahawk
20 x 4 ESSM = 80 ESSM
16 x LRSAM = 30 LRSAM
That's 156 missiles with 110 Antiair, 30 land attack, and 16 antishipping.
Either of those load outs, which as you know can vary significantly, will make either the Burke or Tico just as tough a nut to crack as what you showed above, particularly when you consider their proven technologies, electronics, and particularly their proven counter electronic capabilities.
I am not discounting the Type 055 or the Type 052d, they are both significant achievements by the PRC and will also be very tough nuts to crack...but
Jeff, I think you misunderstand Iron Man's meaning.
He is saying that if HHQ-9 variants can be "dual packed" in the manner that he is proposing (which is indeed a just an idea) -- then it means his 052D loadout of having 72 HHQ-9 variants in only 36 cells will allow 28 cells to be used for other things.
Of course, the direct comparison to Burke or Tico in this case, is the prerequisite that a Burke or Tico must have 72 HHQ-9 equivalents in their cells -- aka SM-2 variants or SM-6s -- in 72 cells, because the Mk-41 VLS is not big enough to hypothetically dual pack SM-2 or SM-6 sized missiles.
In other words, what is being compared is not whatever mixed load of missiles that Burkes or Ticos can yield, but rather it is looking at the number of free VLS cells that Burkes or Ticos will have after 72 of their VLS cells are already used to fill up with SM-2s or SM-6s.
In the case of Burkes, it is 96 - 72 = 24 free cells
In the case of Tico, it is 122 - 72 = 50 free cells
In the case of 052D, it is 64 - (72/2) = 28 free cells
And add in the various non VLS cell missiles if one wishes.
This is all operating off the idea that the Chinese Navy's universal VLS could notionally dual pack HHQ-9 class missiles, and the idea that HHQ-9 class missiles are equivalent munitions to be compared with the likes of SM-2/SM-6 variants.