052/052B Class Destroyers

Maggern

Maggern

Junior Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Ambivalent said:
The shortcoming with HQ-7 and Tor are that they are command line of sight guidance missiles. With these, the number of similtaneous engagements possible is limited by the number of radars and guidance channels. These systems are more easily saturated. A better choice is an IR guided missile like RAM, which is independent of the ship once launched, allowing as many intercepts as there are all up rounds available to be fired.
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Wouldn't an independent missile necessarily be more susceptible to countermeasures? Better shooting down a few targets than missing a whole bunch.
 
T

Troika

Junior Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Ambivalent said:
The shortcoming with HQ-7 and Tor are that they are command line of sight guidance missiles. With these, the number of similtaneous engagements possible is limited by the number of radars and guidance channels. These systems are more easily saturated. A better choice is an IR guided missile like RAM, which is independent of the ship once launched, allowing as many intercepts as there are all up rounds available to be fired.
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Well, how hard would it be to mate the seeker of, say, the TY-90 to the HQ-7? My little voice tells me, a lot harder than it looks... Better stick to the TY-90 or adapt the PL-12. Pity, the FM-90 is a nice missile.
 
snake65

snake65

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Ambivalent said:
The shortcoming with HQ-7 and Tor are that they are command line of sight guidance missiles. With these, the number of similtaneous engagements possible is limited by the number of radars and guidance channels. These systems are more easily saturated. A better choice is an IR guided missile like RAM, which is independent of the ship once launched, allowing as many intercepts as there are all up rounds available to be fired.
Click to expand...

Their shortcoming is also their advantage. Command missile is much more prone to jamming than IR. Tor has 4 target channels (8 missiles) in a 60 by 60degree quadrant and Pantsyr has the same (coupled with a much faster missile).
Independence of IR also is twofold - no way to say on which target it will lock-on once it's launched, if you have 4 incoming targets all your missiles can lock on the same target (with the largest signature).
 
A

Ambivalent

Junior Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Maggern said:
Wouldn't an independent missile necessarily be more susceptible to countermeasures? Better shooting down a few targets than missing a whole bunch.
Click to expand...

Cruise missiles do not carry IR countermeasures, and imaging infrared is very difficult to spoof. It memorizes an image and homes on that, ignoring other heat sources.
 
A

Ambivalent

Junior Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread

snake65 said:
Their shortcoming is also their advantage. Command missile is much more prone to jamming than IR. Tor has 4 target channels (8 missiles) in a 60 by 60degree quadrant and Pantsyr has the same (coupled with a much faster missile).
Independence of IR also is twofold - no way to say on which target it will lock-on once it's launched, if you have 4 incoming targets all your missiles can lock on the same target (with the largest signature).
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Read up on SWY-3/RAIDS, a combat management system that integrates the data from all the ship's sensors, including the SLQ-32, MK-23 TAS, the CIWS fire control radars and either the MK-86 or MK-99 FCS into a single picture of the battle space, assigning either hard kill weapons or soft kill ECM/decoys/flares as appropriate to the distance and speed of the target and geometry of the engagement. By sequencing missiles such as RAM, multiple engagements of the same target are avoided.
 
snake65

snake65

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: DDG 052C Thread

Ambivalent said:
Read up on SWY-3/RAIDS, a combat management system that integrates the data from all the ship's sensors, including the SLQ-32, MK-23 TAS, the CIWS fire control radars and either the MK-86 or MK-99 FCS into a single picture of the battle space, assigning either hard kill weapons or soft kill ECM/decoys/flares as appropriate to the distance and speed of the target and geometry of the engagement. By sequencing missiles such as RAM, multiple engagements of the same target are avoided.
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Thank you, I've read enough of Friedman and other open information. Sequencing is by no means panacea for avoiding multiple engagements by heat seeking missiles. US NAVY is leaving RAMs as last line of CIWS, dismounting Phalanxes. In this case you have just to pray for your decoys to work when your RAMs are distracted by couple of red-hot supersonic Moskits while several subsonic Urans are left unattended. I'll have really uncomfortable feeling having to depend on heat seeking missile's "intellect" as my last resort.
 
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plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Well looky here

While its pretty much been known for some years what AShMs the 052Cs carry, here is the first live firing picture I have seen to date.

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planeman

planeman

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re: Well looky here

plawolf said:
While its pretty much been known for some years what AShMs the 052Cs carry, here is the first live firing picture I have seen to date.

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Click to expand...

So the "+" config fins won the day vs the "X" config seen in some test launches. Confusing though.
 
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