asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Very modern looking DDG good by China
Very modern looking DDG good by China
052/052B Class Destroyers
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Completed is probably not the best adjective...launched perhaps. Complete in the sense that she can go off and do sea trials under her own power I suppose.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Good chance of it, because the VLS is meant to accommodate a large variety of munitions, and surprisingly, state media mentioned it will be able to launch DH-10 (although state media is also not exactly reliable on military matters).
But overall, the winds are saying yes.
China's 052D destroyer equipped with new vertical launching system
(People's Daily Online) 17:54, September 05, 2013
Recently, a group of pictures appearing on the Internet show that the first 052D missile destroyer of Chinese Navy is having on sea trial in a certain sea area of the East China Sea.
052D destroyer is equipped with new vertical launching system. Compared with 052C destroyer, the new system is able to contain large-scale weapons, including “DH-10” cruise missile and “HQ-9” long-range air-defense missile. The number of missile launch devices also increases from 48 to 64, giving 052D stronger firepower than 052C.
As for the vertical launch function of 052D new-type missile destroyer, military expert Yin Zhuo said that the vertical launching technique has been used in many countries actually, such as the U.S. and Russia. Our vertical launching function has also been used on 052C and 054A vessels. The launching launch has the advantage of rapid response. For example, a vertically launched air defense missile can be instantly redirected to attack a sea-skimming missile. Second, the vessel body doesn’t need to change in the process of vertical launching. The anti-ship missile in the past used fixed launchers, so they needed to set rotation angle, or the vessel needed to maneuver to aim at target. By comparison, vertical launch does not need this process so it will enhance our abilities of rapid response.
According to Yin Zhuo, the differences between 052D and the most advanced missile destroyer in the world include: first, there are still gaps in the information level. Compared with the most advanced destroyers in the world, our functions in information level is relatively inferior. For example, there are differences in the response time, bandwidth of transmission, immunity from interference and anti-destruction ability.
Second, there are also differences in the maturity of techniques. Our phased array radar in the destroyer is flat, which is different from the curved one on 052C. It features more powerful functions and multi-target tracking and handling capabilities. But there are still differences in terms of maturity of our techniques comparing with the most advanced destroyers throughout the world.
Good chance of it, because the VLS is meant to accommodate a large variety of munitions, and surprisingly, state media mentioned it will be able to launch DH-10 (although state media is also not exactly reliable on military matters).
But overall, the winds are saying yes.
China's 052D destroyer equipped with new vertical launching system
(People's Daily Online) 17:54, September 05, 2013
Recently, a group of pictures appearing on the Internet show that the first 052D missile destroyer of Chinese Navy is having on sea trial in a certain sea area of the East China Sea.
052D destroyer is equipped with new vertical launching system. Compared with 052C destroyer, the new system is able to contain large-scale weapons, including “DH-10” cruise missile and “HQ-9” long-range air-defense missile. The number of missile launch devices also increases from 48 to 64, giving 052D stronger firepower than 052C.
As for the vertical launch function of 052D new-type missile destroyer, military expert Yin Zhuo said that the vertical launching technique has been used in many countries actually, such as the U.S. and Russia. Our vertical launching function has also been used on 052C and 054A vessels. The launching launch has the advantage of rapid response. For example, a vertically launched air defense missile can be instantly redirected to attack a sea-skimming missile. Second, the vessel body doesn’t need to change in the process of vertical launching. The anti-ship missile in the past used fixed launchers, so they needed to set rotation angle, or the vessel needed to maneuver to aim at target. By comparison, vertical launch does not need this process so it will enhance our abilities of rapid response.
According to Yin Zhuo, the differences between 052D and the most advanced missile destroyer in the world include: first, there are still gaps in the information level. Compared with the most advanced destroyers in the world, our functions in information level is relatively inferior. For example, there are differences in the response time, bandwidth of transmission, immunity from interference and anti-destruction ability.
Second, there are also differences in the maturity of techniques. Our phased array radar in the destroyer is flat, which is different from the curved one on 052C. It features more powerful functions and multi-target tracking and handling capabilities. But there are still differences in terms of maturity of our techniques comparing with the most advanced destroyers throughout the world.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
The new rumors coming from Henri K. claim that (1) the bow VLS can now carry YJ-18A anti ship missiles, and (2) each of the radars on the ship supposedly has 4045 T/R modules.
The new rumors coming from Henri K. claim that (1) the bow VLS can now carry YJ-18A anti ship missiles, and (2) each of the radars on the ship supposedly has 4045 T/R modules.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
How can this guy know something like that? i mean, does this guy have connections to PLAN´s leadership ?
How can this guy know something like that? i mean, does this guy have connections to PLAN´s leadership ?
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
He's made a few other claims as well, some regarding 055, and some regarding 052D that turned out to be somewhat accurate, if memory serves.
And most "insiders" often would have connections with the relevant industries or institutes rather than the leadership of an entire military service.
Anyway, those claims aren't too outlandish. We know YJ-18 exists, even if we don't know what kind of missile it is, and we know 346A is a large AESA so each panel should have a correspondingly generous T/R module count
He's made a few other claims as well, some regarding 055, and some regarding 052D that turned out to be somewhat accurate, if memory serves.
And most "insiders" often would have connections with the relevant industries or institutes rather than the leadership of an entire military service.
Anyway, those claims aren't too outlandish. We know YJ-18 exists, even if we don't know what kind of missile it is, and we know 346A is a large AESA so each panel should have a correspondingly generous T/R module count
kwaigonegin
Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
not to get OT but I'm curious as to why is PLAN leadership always self deprecating... while what he said is probably true I just don't see the purpose of intentionally speaking negative about what I think is a tremendous achievement.
For once I like them to say, you know this ship is awesome and it kicks ass! period! .. instead it's always along the lines of ... yeahh it's ok but you know compare to AB or other ships it sucks and kinda lacking this that and the other. WTH.
I'm sure whatever the ship is lacking the intelligence community will know about it sooner or later. There's no reason to feign false humility.
not to get OT but I'm curious as to why is PLAN leadership always self deprecating... while what he said is probably true I just don't see the purpose of intentionally speaking negative about what I think is a tremendous achievement.
For once I like them to say, you know this ship is awesome and it kicks ass! period! .. instead it's always along the lines of ... yeahh it's ok but you know compare to AB or other ships it sucks and kinda lacking this that and the other. WTH.
I'm sure whatever the ship is lacking the intelligence community will know about it sooner or later. There's no reason to feign false humility.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
In most of modern china's history, its military capability has always lagged behind its neighbours. It has either overplayed or underplayed its hand during crises and conflicts to achieve political goals, and the understating of its current military capabilities -- ranging from no state recognition of the J-20's existence, to barely an official whisper regarding the much touted AShBM, and to the subject at hand the 052D destroyer -- all serve to create deception and make potential foes second think china's own capabilities.
For china's current security situation, it is better to understate its military capability than overstate it.
So this article is really just another tiny gear in the great campaign of sowing "limited" misinformation and a doctrine of "not letting the enemy know your own capabilities".
What's that sun tzu quote? Know your enemy and yourself, you will win every battle. Know yourself but not your enemy, you will win some battles. Know neither, you will lose every battle.
I believe this degree of opaqueness is to put potential foes into the second category, where they will surely know their own capabilities but have a less stable assessment of the PLA's capability.
Of course, foreign analysts and intelligence agencies will endeavour to uncover the truth of it, but if what is publicly available serves to partially illuminate what they know behind closed doors, then I'd say the PLA is doing relatively well in its psychological campaign.
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Regarding T/R modules, just for comparison, type 45's very capable SAMPSON radar has two rotating arrays, each array face with 2600 elements.
Considering 346A is such a massive radar comparatively (I think it's the largest fixed APAR installation of its kind currently aboard any surface combatant in the world -- I'd like to know how capable zumwalt's SPY-3 is), the 4045 element count is completely reasonable -- and depending on power output and backend processing, it could conceivably one of the most capable naval borne PARs in the world, once mature.
In most of modern china's history, its military capability has always lagged behind its neighbours. It has either overplayed or underplayed its hand during crises and conflicts to achieve political goals, and the understating of its current military capabilities -- ranging from no state recognition of the J-20's existence, to barely an official whisper regarding the much touted AShBM, and to the subject at hand the 052D destroyer -- all serve to create deception and make potential foes second think china's own capabilities.
For china's current security situation, it is better to understate its military capability than overstate it.
So this article is really just another tiny gear in the great campaign of sowing "limited" misinformation and a doctrine of "not letting the enemy know your own capabilities".
What's that sun tzu quote? Know your enemy and yourself, you will win every battle. Know yourself but not your enemy, you will win some battles. Know neither, you will lose every battle.
I believe this degree of opaqueness is to put potential foes into the second category, where they will surely know their own capabilities but have a less stable assessment of the PLA's capability.
Of course, foreign analysts and intelligence agencies will endeavour to uncover the truth of it, but if what is publicly available serves to partially illuminate what they know behind closed doors, then I'd say the PLA is doing relatively well in its psychological campaign.
---
Regarding T/R modules, just for comparison, type 45's very capable SAMPSON radar has two rotating arrays, each array face with 2600 elements.
Considering 346A is such a massive radar comparatively (I think it's the largest fixed APAR installation of its kind currently aboard any surface combatant in the world -- I'd like to know how capable zumwalt's SPY-3 is), the 4045 element count is completely reasonable -- and depending on power output and backend processing, it could conceivably one of the most capable naval borne PARs in the world, once mature.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
I get what you say and do agree in terms of 'sowing misinformation' however that wasn't what I was trying to get at. I wasn't implying they should overstate or even understate a certain equipment's capability.. I was thinking more along the lines of just being proud of your achievement.
I realized there is certainly a time and place to subterfuge intelligence gathering and discount one's military capabilities but when a ship/plane/tank etc is launch and you're making a public statement there is really no need.
Other nations don't really do that. When someone launches a ship and and breaks the wine bottle over it's hull or if they just had a maiden flight of their fighter etc they say good things.
You don't ever hear them say, "WOW...this is a great day, we worked so hard together and our efforts have paid off in this wonderful creation of ours, I'm so proud of everyone involved blah blah blah... HOWEVER Billy Bob from across the street's boat is still much prettier and much better than ours!"
Anyway I'm getting way OT so I'll just stop right there..
I get what you say and do agree in terms of 'sowing misinformation' however that wasn't what I was trying to get at. I wasn't implying they should overstate or even understate a certain equipment's capability.. I was thinking more along the lines of just being proud of your achievement.
I realized there is certainly a time and place to subterfuge intelligence gathering and discount one's military capabilities but when a ship/plane/tank etc is launch and you're making a public statement there is really no need.
Other nations don't really do that. When someone launches a ship and and breaks the wine bottle over it's hull or if they just had a maiden flight of their fighter etc they say good things.
You don't ever hear them say, "WOW...this is a great day, we worked so hard together and our efforts have paid off in this wonderful creation of ours, I'm so proud of everyone involved blah blah blah... HOWEVER Billy Bob from across the street's boat is still much prettier and much better than ours!"
Anyway I'm getting way OT so I'll just stop right there..
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