052/052B Class Destroyers

ahadicow

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The US Navy is not sitting on it laurels with respect to anti-shipping capabilities for its surface vessels....

good info, but it seems Mysterre is the one you need to address this reply to. After all, it is he who suggested USN had done away with their anti-shipping capabilities on their surface ships.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
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re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

8 supersonic missiles are hardly a challenge for the Aegis system, even when launched with hundreds of other antiship missiles. They would simply be higher priority targets and get engaged sooner than the others. And let's not even talk about how a CVBG would even allow a Sov to get within 200km in order to fire off those Sunburns. Not going to happen, sorry.


This sounds all nice and flowery but let's talk about the "presence" of a Sov in "naval warfare". I'll start. Nice guns, alot of range. Oh wait, not so much. Nice SAM's, alot of range. Oh wait, not so much. Nice Sunburns, alot of range. Oh wait, not so much. What can a Sov do well these days? Not so much. Well, I guess it can contribute a helo to the ASW rotation.


The pilots of planes can take a nap while the plane handlers sip tea and biscuits while the fuel truck drives from across town to get to the airfield.... and those planes would still get to their destinations faster than a ship at full steam.

How in the world did we get the original question turned into Sov? Mysterre, can you try a little harder to stay on topic in the future? If the original question was regarding to CJ-10, just limit your answer to that and try to stick on the subject of 052.

CJ-10 doesn't have a 4000 km range but rather 1/2-2/3 of that (depending on its payload). I would assume that its guidance and microprocessors are all up to date but that would depend highly on the guidance platforms (i.e. J-STARS, satellite, etc), which China is building furiously but still needs catching up when compared to the USN.

Here is one thing for future reference in discussions. Let's not make too many assumptions or predictions here. Let's go by what we know or can fairly certainly predict at the moment. Please apply this to 052 in this thread and to the relevant topics on other thread.
 

leibowitz

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Type 052B DDG, 168 Guangzhou open to public

militaire052b0220201212_zps259af233.jpg

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Er, the first pic says "taking pictures inside the vessel is prohibited", but I see pics from inside the vessel :confused:
 

superdog

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

That depends on where the weld is, but still it does look below standard in today's day and age and for a DDG that is simply not acceptable, you do not want these kinds of welds in a ocean going warship, in war that could make all the deference, no matter how good your damage control sailors are

But then this isn't today's warship, it was built over a decade ago when it was most likely a "first" attempt, the pace at which Chinese warship design and construction has advanced is almost unbelievable and a look at a Type 054A and Type 052C will prove it

Nevertheless the other pictures show a good standard of maintainence, everything is squared away organised and it looks they are following a standard operating procedure by the way it is presented, most things have a fixed place and they are safely installed

Modern Chinese welding and machinery technology is on par with the best warship designs, For Azmat Class the technology's were all imported for the 2nd ship and installed at Karachi dockyard who also have French technology for construction of Agosta Class SSK, same for JF17 the precision technology machine tools were imported for the construction for the aircraft, all of them pretty good

Sometimes you wonder how well the PLAN sailors are under war like conditions, for example, how would they react when there is a explosion on board, how is the body language, how do the people responsible take charge, how does the captain lead from the front, what effect does the explosion have on injured sailors and moral, how quickly do they get the scene under control, do they show valour and risk of life to save the ship, this is what wins battles this is what it takes to save a ship and recover it

Not that anyone wants a explosion on board but some times you can't help but think about what are very real issues for sailors at sea
The strongest weld is not necessarily the prettiest looking one, so I'm not sure if the weld shown in that picture is actually "below standard".
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Type 052B DDG, 168 Guangzhou open to public


militaire052b0221201212_zps1b71226e.jpg
Very, very nice pics of the PLAN 168, Guanghzou.

I have a 1/350 scale model of her and will be adding her to my
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, aong with the
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, DDG-139 Ningbo, and two Type 054A FFGs, FFG-530 Xuzhou, and FFG-570 Huangshan.

These pics will help a lot when building the Guangzhou.

PLAN-CV16-103.jpg


plan-ddg171-031.jpg
 
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Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

How in the world did we get the original question turned into Sov? Mysterre, can you try a little harder to stay on topic in the future? If the original question was regarding to CJ-10, just limit your answer to that and try to stick on the subject of 052.
The issue is the viability of shipborne antiship missiles, such as the Sov with its Sunburns and the Type 052D with its alleged CJ-10's. Both of these platforms have deficiencies in the ASuW role, such as limited range in the case of the Sunburns, limited ability to target long distance in the case of the CJ-10's, and limited numbers of missiles and limited flexibility in delivery in both cases.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
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re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The issue is the viability of shipborne antiship missiles, such as the Sov with its Sunburns and the Type 052D with its alleged CJ-10's. Both of these platforms have deficiencies in the ASuW role, such as limited range in the case of the Sunburns, limited ability to target long distance in the case of the CJ-10's, and limited numbers of missiles and limited flexibility in delivery in both cases.

you can make you argument strictly on 052D and CJ-10 alone. I don't think it's a particular hard case to make without bringing in Sov and sunburn missiles. i'm not saying other people also weren't at fault, but let's try our hardest to stay on topic in the future.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Nice to see the second Type 052D being launched looks like the progress on these ships is progressing pretty fast

Containing a 64 cell VLS is also very encouraging and it will be nice to see wether to not the quad pack missile launchers are installed if not then it means the VLS can launch anti-ship, land attack and surface to air missiles

It would also be interesting to know how many land attack cruise missiles a Type 052D will be able to carry

Some pictures of the combat information centre would greatly help us understand what kind of capability the Type 052D really has

For example the Royal Navy Type 45 DDG anti-air destroyer has a total of 25 console stations each station has 3-4 large touch screens fully equipped with the latest and most modern systems analysing all the data which the ships radars, sensors, electronics etc etc

This gives the Type 45 a huge capability in monitoring the sea and sky's all around the DDG which makes it one of the most advanced air defence destroyers in the world
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Nice to see the second Type 052D being launched looks like the progress on these ships is progressing pretty fast

Containing a 64 cell VLS is also very encouraging and it will be nice to see wether to not the quad pack missile launchers are installed if not then it means the VLS can launch anti-ship, land attack and surface to air missiles
Asif, do you have any pics of the 2nd Type 052D being launched yet? I'd love to see them...also latest pics opf the outfitting of the 1st one would be great too.

This is the latest pic I can find of the 2nd 052D, still in the hall on the left in the pic:

d4c6.jpg

Yes, the 052D looks to be a very capable enhancement over the Lanzhou class, which I guess will end up being six vessels. They are very good vessels as well. Would be onteresting one day to know the full extent of their battle management capabilities. Thier link capabilities, their cooperative engagement capabilities, the treu psecs on theis PARS and missiles, etc. Same for the newer 052Ds and see what improvements in all of those areas (and more) were made.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Asif, do you have any pics of the 2nd Type 052D being launched yet? I'd love to see them...also latest pics opf the outfitting of the 1st one would be great too.

This is the latest pic I can find of the 2nd 052D, still in the hall on the left in the pic:

052D 2 was launched a week or so ago, here she is:

052d2.jpg


052D 1 with 052C 6 being fitted out:

052d1.jpg
 
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