052/052B Class Destroyers

F

Franklin

Captain
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

hmmwv said:
GT25000 has been reverse engineered a while ago, 2011 is when they were able to finally source 98.1% of the parts from domestic suppliers. Not only 12 units were delivered in 2011, the much improved 40MW class GT25000IC is on schedule as well.
Click to expand...

That is because the Ukraine has sold to China the entire production process and technology for these gas turbine engines and China paid good money for it. When it comes to technology transfer the Ukraine has been far more helpful than Russia ever was and probably that's why China recently bailed out the Ukraine at a tune of 7 billion dollars when the IMF refused.

Now it's fantastic that China is able to build 98,1% of all the part domestically and is even producing a upgraded variant. Not wanting to nitpick but what about that other 1,9% ?
 
Last edited:
Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Mysterre said:
Just because they are used interchangeably in common vernacular doesn't mean they are technically interchangeable. It's like calling every piano a "Steinway". You can do that if you want and people will understand what you're trying to say, but people also know you're still wrong.


The term "active electronically scanned array" existed prior to "active phased array radar", and the acronym "APAR" is most appropriate to Thales' creation. APAR is only used generically because people have been using it generically. I suppose if a billion people started calling every piano a Steinway, these two words would become synonymous through the same process of vulgarization. Again, I do not (necessarily) invalidate the validity of the claims, but rather the authority of the claims. These are NOT the same things.
Click to expand...

Your steinway comparison would make sense if the author was calling the radar SAMPSON or SPY-1 instead, but APAR existed in the pure descriptive meaning before thales named their radar that. Sure it would've avoided a bit of confusion if they used AESA instead, but APAR is perfectly legitimate. If they used a more obvious, branded name like SAMPSON then I would agree with you.


---

this writer may betray no insider knowledge, but shows me someone who seems to be able to keep track of the rumours and more legitimate discussions, which depending on your position, may find valuable or not at all.
 
H

hmmwv

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Franklin said:
That is because the Ukraine sold to China the entire production process and technology for these gas turbine engines and China paid good money for it. When it comes to technology transfer the Ukraine is far more helpful than Russia ever was and probably that's why China recently bailed out the Ukraine at a tune of 7 billion dollars when the IMF refused.

Now it's fantastic that China is able to build 98,1% of all the part domestically and is even producing a upgraded variant. Not wanting to nitpick but what about that other 1,9% ?
Click to expand...

A lot of Chinese marine power plants (civilian and military) are domestic build but have imported components, some are parts with specialty alloys that only the former Soviet republics make, some are simply chips available on the commercial market.
 
Mysterre

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:
Your steinway comparison would make sense if the author was calling the radar SAMPSON or SPY-1 instead, but APAR existed in the pure descriptive meaning before thales named their radar that.
Click to expand...
Actually I remember the opposite of that. AESA has been around ever since, well, AESA has been around. APAR was taken from the Thales radar designation and vulgarized to be synonymous with AESA by un-discerning fanboys because it was the very first shipborne AESA in service. As a reference point, the Zeven Provincien's first IOC was 2002, TEN YEARS AGO, meaning this radar and this name have been around even longer than that, meaning this radar and this name have been around longer than fanboys have been around to needlessly confuse "AESA" and "APAR".
 
A

antiterror13

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Mysterre said:
Sounds like just another fanboy writeup to me. I don't necessarily discount all (or even any) of the claims, but personally I think any one of us here could have written that Wiki article based on what's already been presented here (aside from the the speculation about the 130mm munition load choices and the new datalink). Plus anyone who mixes up "AESA" (generic term for active arrays) and "APAR" (brand name specific to Thales Nederland's AESA) is an amateur, even as the author quips about the legitimacy of the term "Chinese Aegis", which he actually further invalidates by associating an entire ship with the brand name of a combat data management system. He's not the first one to make this mistake, but that doesn't mean it's not a mistake.
Click to expand...

It's a bit harsh. Are you claiming better than them ? ..... yeahhh right .. I doubt that
 
Mysterre

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

antiterror13 said:
It's a bit harsh. Are you claiming better than them ? ..... yeahhh right .. I doubt that
Click to expand...

Did you write that article or something? What you personally doubt is not in my realm of importance, and I think you would have GREAT difficulty quoting any of my post where I was claiming "better" than "them". Put your glasses on and try again.
 
A

antiterror13

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Mysterre said:
Did you write that article or something? What you personally doubt is not in my realm of importance, and I think you would have GREAT difficulty quoting any of my post where I was claiming "better" than "them". Put your glasses on and try again.
Click to expand...

If you know better (which I highly doubt it) why don't you make some contributions ? .. you don't because you know much less, what you do is just criticizing everybody and you are hopeful, some people would think you know better ? . . right ?, but obviously YOU DON'T !
 
Mysterre

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

antiterror13 said:
If you know better (which I highly doubt it) why don't you make some contributions ? .. you don't because you know much less, what you do is just criticizing everybody and you are hopeful, some people would think you know better ? . . right ?, but obviously YOU DON'T !
Click to expand...
You have clearly missed the entire discussion and need to remove yourself from it before you have a stroke from the rage building inside your head.
 
W

wuguanhui

New Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Mysterre said:
Sounds like just another fanboy writeup to me. I don't necessarily discount all (or even any) of the claims, but personally I think any one of us here could have written that Wiki article based on what's already been presented here (aside from the the speculation about the 130mm munition load choices and the new datalink). Plus anyone who mixes up "AESA" (generic term for active arrays) and "APAR" (brand name specific to Thales Nederland's AESA) is an amateur, even as the author quips about the legitimacy of the term "Chinese Aegis", which he actually further invalidates by associating an entire ship with the brand name of a combat data management system. He's not the first one to make this mistake, but that doesn't mean it's not a mistake.
Click to expand...

Dude, the article even links to something called Sinodefence forum. Seriously, this very thread.
 
C

ChinaGuy

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Franklin said:
Not wanting to nitpick but what about that other 1,9% ?
Click to expand...

At a guess I would say they run Microsoft Windows on some of the on board computers. There's no reason why not since those are probably free and communism is not in the business of paying greedy capitalists.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top