052/052B Class Destroyers
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Re: is it true that type 052D DDG is under construction?
This is on top of the existing pictures we have on 052C from the PLAN picture thread.
Looks like 052C is really getting unveiled and have achieved at least some level of maturity
This is on top of the existing pictures we have on 052C from the PLAN picture thread.
Looks like 052C is really getting unveiled and have achieved at least some level of maturity
Violet Oboe
Junior Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread
Japan currently has already launched two improved Kongou-class DDG´s and these units will be commissioned in 07 and 08 consecutively. Both destroyers built by Mitsubishi in Nagasaki are certainly showing off the most advanced tech MSDF can actually employ. According to japanese sources both will receive SM-3 missiles and naturally the ´indigenous´ japanese Aegis system.
Comparing the comprehensive capabilities of 052C with the imp. Kongou´s shows in my opinion some weaknesses in the chinese design and the suspicious gap between the launches of the two 052C units and their suspected 052D successors (some argue they have even not already laid down yet!) is likely to be explained by the urgent desire of PLAN admirals to field a group of 4 DDG´s (052D?) which are a true match with the imp. Kongou´s in 2010.
What is your analysis about 052C/D vs. Kongou/imp. Kongou? How big is the lead of Mitsubishi/ Nagasaki vs. Jiangnan/Shanghai in your opinion?
Best regards Violet Oboe!
Japan currently has already launched two improved Kongou-class DDG´s and these units will be commissioned in 07 and 08 consecutively. Both destroyers built by Mitsubishi in Nagasaki are certainly showing off the most advanced tech MSDF can actually employ. According to japanese sources both will receive SM-3 missiles and naturally the ´indigenous´ japanese Aegis system.
Comparing the comprehensive capabilities of 052C with the imp. Kongou´s shows in my opinion some weaknesses in the chinese design and the suspicious gap between the launches of the two 052C units and their suspected 052D successors (some argue they have even not already laid down yet!) is likely to be explained by the urgent desire of PLAN admirals to field a group of 4 DDG´s (052D?) which are a true match with the imp. Kongou´s in 2010.
What is your analysis about 052C/D vs. Kongou/imp. Kongou? How big is the lead of Mitsubishi/ Nagasaki vs. Jiangnan/Shanghai in your opinion?
Best regards Violet Oboe!
Re: DDG 052C Thread
I am not aware of any new Kongo being launched. I don't think the class is going to be further added since all future efforts are focused on the DDX.
The last two Kongo, the Myoko and the Chokai, has the SM-2R Block III, so I don't know if you're confusing it with this.
I suspect the PLAN's appetite for the 052C got winded down a little when the shipyards handed them the invoice.
I am not aware of any new Kongo being launched. I don't think the class is going to be further added since all future efforts are focused on the DDX.
The last two Kongo, the Myoko and the Chokai, has the SM-2R Block III, so I don't know if you're confusing it with this.
I suspect the PLAN's appetite for the 052C got winded down a little when the shipyards handed them the invoice.
Re: DDG 052C Thread
another relevant comparision would be with the South Korean KDX-II and KDX-III programs, which involve at least 3 vessels. The KDX-IIs are already entering service and, though lacking AEGIS, are formidable air-defence destroyers by any standard.
another relevant comparision would be with the South Korean KDX-II and KDX-III programs, which involve at least 3 vessels. The KDX-IIs are already entering service and, though lacking AEGIS, are formidable air-defence destroyers by any standard.
Re: DDG 052C Thread
I finally found a reference in the CDF that alludes to the JSMDF having as many as 6 Kongo class destroyers by 2008. The sixth one would be the largest and both the fifth and sixth would have SM-3s.
My analysis is this. I think between 2004-2006 the PLAN had too much to chew, having just commisioned a slew of destroyers and subs at a near frantic pace and have to inevitably slow down a little to digest them all.
I also think that the 052Cs are also very expensive and could easily be the most expensive warship the PLAN had built and bought. If they had active arrays, they could easily be among the most expensive DDGs ever built. So yeah, the price slowed them down a bit. Also it had a spate of new technologies the PLAN had just been introduced to, so that needed some testing and digestion. After some period of operational testing and fault finding, they would have gathered enough data to formulate what they would need to improve on and make the 052D.
The purchase of the two 956EM could also be a mistake. Both ships cost an arm and a leg for an update of a three decades old design. That could have chewed right into the budget necessary to fund the 052D. Likewise buying all those Kilos may have chewed into the budget needed to build more Yuans.
Right now, the PLAN appears busy in the short term to deal with the upcoming up to 4 054A, the 071 and at least two flotillas worth of Type 22 FAC. Then after that they may have to decide on the 052D and the Yuans.
The improved Kongos would no doubt be very formidable, which is the more the better reason for the PLAN to wait for a while, gather more info about it, then factor that to the specs of th 052D.
I finally found a reference in the CDF that alludes to the JSMDF having as many as 6 Kongo class destroyers by 2008. The sixth one would be the largest and both the fifth and sixth would have SM-3s.
My analysis is this. I think between 2004-2006 the PLAN had too much to chew, having just commisioned a slew of destroyers and subs at a near frantic pace and have to inevitably slow down a little to digest them all.
I also think that the 052Cs are also very expensive and could easily be the most expensive warship the PLAN had built and bought. If they had active arrays, they could easily be among the most expensive DDGs ever built. So yeah, the price slowed them down a bit. Also it had a spate of new technologies the PLAN had just been introduced to, so that needed some testing and digestion. After some period of operational testing and fault finding, they would have gathered enough data to formulate what they would need to improve on and make the 052D.
The purchase of the two 956EM could also be a mistake. Both ships cost an arm and a leg for an update of a three decades old design. That could have chewed right into the budget necessary to fund the 052D. Likewise buying all those Kilos may have chewed into the budget needed to build more Yuans.
Right now, the PLAN appears busy in the short term to deal with the upcoming up to 4 054A, the 071 and at least two flotillas worth of Type 22 FAC. Then after that they may have to decide on the 052D and the Yuans.
The improved Kongos would no doubt be very formidable, which is the more the better reason for the PLAN to wait for a while, gather more info about it, then factor that to the specs of th 052D.
Violet Oboe
Junior Member
Re: DDG 052C Thread
After doing some research about Kaijō Jieitai´s (海上自衛隊) newest DDG class (DDG-177 Atago, DDG-178 Ashigara) I have to admit that these mighty ships have left me deeply impressed. Both units will be operational in the fall of 08 (Atago (launched 24/08/2005, commissioned 03/07), Ashigara (launched 30/08/06, commissioned 03/08)).
Obviously PLAN´s new DDG´s (052D?) have to be ´pimped´ extensively if they should be able to mount a decent challenge their japanese counterparts. The spacious frame of this improved Kongō´s (10000 ts full load, 170 m, 21m) clearly indicates that they are full blown CG´s in reality. Although MSDF officials maintain that these ships will not employ Tomahawk cruise missiles this will be a matter of months to fix if MSDF gets order to do so.
Regarding the capabilities of the ´japanese´Aegis system some guys on japanese miltech forums who boasted to be in the know maintained that this system is able to track up to 2048 surface and air targets simultaneously.This impressive capability would set a new daring benchmark for PLAN engineers and developers indeed.
(Unfourtunately I do not know whether the guys who posted about this are real pros or only 15 year old punks who have read their favourite manga JIPANGU (ジパング) so often that they think fiction is reality.
JIPANGU is a manga where a Kongo class destroyer is beamed back in time into the year 1942 and consequently changes the course of history with her hightech weapons, which are ironically of US descent (really funny those japanese mangas!):rofl: )
After doing some research about Kaijō Jieitai´s (海上自衛隊) newest DDG class (DDG-177 Atago, DDG-178 Ashigara) I have to admit that these mighty ships have left me deeply impressed. Both units will be operational in the fall of 08 (Atago (launched 24/08/2005, commissioned 03/07), Ashigara (launched 30/08/06, commissioned 03/08)).
Obviously PLAN´s new DDG´s (052D?) have to be ´pimped´ extensively if they should be able to mount a decent challenge their japanese counterparts. The spacious frame of this improved Kongō´s (10000 ts full load, 170 m, 21m) clearly indicates that they are full blown CG´s in reality. Although MSDF officials maintain that these ships will not employ Tomahawk cruise missiles this will be a matter of months to fix if MSDF gets order to do so.
Regarding the capabilities of the ´japanese´Aegis system some guys on japanese miltech forums who boasted to be in the know maintained that this system is able to track up to 2048 surface and air targets simultaneously.This impressive capability would set a new daring benchmark for PLAN engineers and developers indeed.
(Unfourtunately I do not know whether the guys who posted about this are real pros or only 15 year old punks who have read their favourite manga JIPANGU (ジパング) so often that they think fiction is reality.
JIPANGU is a manga where a Kongo class destroyer is beamed back in time into the year 1942 and consequently changes the course of history with her hightech weapons, which are ironically of US descent (really funny those japanese mangas!):rofl: )Attachments
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new-Atago-Kirishima.jpg
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Re: DDG 052C Thread
I'm envious what those Japanese have...
As much as they boast of being a self defense force, the Navy is blimmin big with more than 50 destroyers, all of them capable sub hunters, most of them fitted with advanced tech, and a good portion of them have fleet air defense capability (though not all boast this capability).
I'd say it was not a mistake to buy the two additional sovremennys...if you just bought two, well that makes logistics quite pointless, but I guess having four are always better than two. Aside from that...though they are somewhat a three decade old design, don't underestimate it...eg, US SM-X Standard missiles are old weapons, but have been continually enhanced into some of the world's most deadly anti-air weapons. Taiwan's acquisition of a thirty year old design of the Kidd Class is one well worth the money...these are capable ships. And hey, no one can complain considering the Sovremenny is far better than any Luda, Luhu, or even Luhai (the latter only about 8 years old). Same thing said with the Kilos...Kilos are not a waste of money...they have a good reputation amongst its users (say India), and the USN fears it...
Sigh, imagine tomorrow was a day where PRC and ROC reunited without a single bullet fired...think bout the combined Chinese fleet...
Sovremennys, Kidds,
054s, La Fayettes,
Jiangweis, Hazard Perrys,
Ludas, Fletcher and Summers,
220X and Hai Ou,
YJ83 and Harpoon,
Sunburn and Hseng Feng II/III,
all hand in hand....and countering the growing Japanese 'self defense' force...
I'm envious what those Japanese have...
As much as they boast of being a self defense force, the Navy is blimmin big with more than 50 destroyers, all of them capable sub hunters, most of them fitted with advanced tech, and a good portion of them have fleet air defense capability (though not all boast this capability).
I'd say it was not a mistake to buy the two additional sovremennys...if you just bought two, well that makes logistics quite pointless, but I guess having four are always better than two. Aside from that...though they are somewhat a three decade old design, don't underestimate it...eg, US SM-X Standard missiles are old weapons, but have been continually enhanced into some of the world's most deadly anti-air weapons. Taiwan's acquisition of a thirty year old design of the Kidd Class is one well worth the money...these are capable ships. And hey, no one can complain considering the Sovremenny is far better than any Luda, Luhu, or even Luhai (the latter only about 8 years old). Same thing said with the Kilos...Kilos are not a waste of money...they have a good reputation amongst its users (say India), and the USN fears it...
Sigh, imagine tomorrow was a day where PRC and ROC reunited without a single bullet fired...think bout the combined Chinese fleet...
Sovremennys, Kidds,
054s, La Fayettes,
Jiangweis, Hazard Perrys,
Ludas, Fletcher and Summers,
220X and Hai Ou,
YJ83 and Harpoon,
Sunburn and Hseng Feng II/III,
all hand in hand....and countering the growing Japanese 'self defense' force...
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