00X/004 future nuclear CATOBAR carrier thread

[Helius]

That reads more like 4 'elevator control units', rather than 4 elevators per se (in addition to 8 'hydraulic braking systems' and 8 'hydraulic buffer systems', presumably 2 of each + 1 control unit per elevator).



Since the document doesn't mention what kind of elevators those control boxes would be used for, it could be anything from aircraft elevators to weapons elevators to internal cargo/personnel elevators.

So on the face of it it's not necessarily certain that this pertains to 4 aircraft elevators, specifically.

 

[taxiya]

That reads more like 4 'elevator control units', rather than 4 elevators per se (in addition to 8 'hydraulic braking systems' and 8 'hydraulic buffer systems', presumably 2 of each + 1 control unit per elevator).

View attachment 119847

Since the document doesn't mention what kind of elevators those control boxes would be used for, it could be anything from aircraft elevators to weapons elevators to internal cargo/personnel elevators.

So on the face of it it's not necessarily certain that this pertains to 4 aircraft elevators, specifically.

Possible but unlikely. Considering that the 4 sets of arrestor controller bid only amount 23 million, it would be excessively expensive at 74 million RMB for 4 small elevators.

 

[taxiya]

We are so back.

Some of the first batch bidding come online today. They are bidding for four linear motors, four elevators, one net barrier and Four arresting gear. Ideally

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The linear motor (a.k.a subsystem of EMALS) is expected to be deliver respectively on June, August, October and finally December 2024.
View attachment 119843

Bidding website (blocked for non-Chinese IP address):

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It worths to note that the number of energy storage capacitor cabinets equals to number of charging devices. I wonder if and how the EM launcher uses capcacitor. It would be one more difference from the US EMALS, it is also not mentioned in published paper regarding PLAN's EM launcher design.

Another note is that it seems that the maximum number of simutanous launching is 3 out of 4 installed catapults.

 

[Helius]

Possible but unlikely. Considering that the 4 sets of arrestor controller bid only amount 23 million, it would be excessively expensive at 74 million RMB for 4 small elevators.

Bid is for control systems and hydraulics for elevators, emphasis on the hydraulics. Whereas what you're quoting is controllers only for the arrestor system.

Also, for all we know it could be 8 sets of elevators instead of 4, with each control box controlling multiple sets.

Even at 4x, 18mil RMB (2.5mil USD) per aircraft elevator (or mechanical and sub-systems) doesn't actually seem "excessively expensive" at all. In fact it seems rather cheap.

 

[taxiya]

Bid is for control systems and hydraulics for elevators, emphasis on the hydraulics. Whereas what you're quoting is controllers only for the arrestor system.

Also, for all we know it could be 8 sets of elevators instead of 4, with each control box controlling multiple sets.

Even at 4x, 18mil RMB (2.5mil USD) per aircraft elevator (or mechanical and sub-systems) doesn't actually seem "excessively expensive" at all. In fact it seems rather cheap.

I was answering your suggestion of these elevators being "weapons elevators to internal cargo/personnel elevators." The size of hydraulics are porportional to the size of elevators, therefor the price.

74 million (73.7) only includes break, damper and control, nothing else. How much do you think the whole elevators would cost? Certinaly far more than your suggested unit cost (USD 2.5m). That is very expensive in my eyes for a personnel elevetor of some 10 people, or even a weapon elevtor of few tones, maybe it sounds cheap in US though.

Anyway, we are all spaculating.

 

[Lime]

JXZD=机械振动= mechanical vibration
YYHC=液压缓冲=hydraulic buffer
ZL=阻拦=arresting

I don't know whether my translation is correct.
Anyway what is KZ means. I can not guess it.

May be KZ=控制=control. Not easy to guess.

 

[taxiya]

JXZD=机械振动= mechanical vibration
YYHC=液压缓冲=hydraulic buffer
ZL=阻拦=arresting

I don't know whether my translation is correct.
Anyway what is KZ means. I can not guess it.

May be KZ=控制=control. Not easy to guess.

JXZD is 机械制动 mechanical break considering that it is in the same package with ZL, especially it is set of 4. Note, having mechanical break in EM arrestor isn't surprising, it is likely the one to make a full stop of the rotating assembly because EM break doesn't exactly and reliably put a full stop, same reason as EM break in Electrical scooter.

YYHC should be hydraulic damper/absorber (缓冲). It is to used to soften the G force (jolt/jerk) at the moment when the landing hook tightens the cable.

KZ is 控制/control. Should be easy to guess since it is the name of the package whose all sub itemes are 控制器 controller.

 

[Lime]

JXZD is 机械制动 mechanical break considering that it is in the same package with ZL, especially it is set of 4. Note, having mechanical break in EM arrestor isn't surprising, it is likely the one to make a full stop of the rotating assembly because EM break doesn't exactly and reliably put a full stop, same reason as EM break in Electrical scooter.

YYHC should be hydraulic damper/absorber (缓冲). It is to used to soften the G force (jolt/jerk) at the moment when the landing hook tightens the cable.

KZ is 控制/control. Should be easy to guess since it is the name of the package whose all sub itemes are 控制器 controller.

So they are all about brake system. This sounds reasonable.

 

[Blitzo]

We are so back.

Some of the first batch bidding come online today. They are bidding for four linear motors, four elevators, one net barrier and Four arresting gear. Ideally

Source:

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The first elevator is expected to be delivered in August 2024, the 2nd one in October, the 3rd one in December and the 4th one in February 2025.
View attachment 119841

The net barrier is expected to be ready in April 2026.
View attachment 119842

The linear motor (a.k.a subsystem of EMALS) is expected to be deliver respectively on June, August, October and finally December 2024.
View attachment 119843
View attachment 119845
View attachment 119844
Bidding website (blocked for non-Chinese IP address):

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I do echo Deino's questions somewhat, in the sense that the most significant weird part is the date of delivery for these subsystems is somewhat earlier than we'd expect for 004/00X to be constructed, even accounting for the fact that these systems are likely long lead in nature.

I suppose it is possible these items may be "produced and delivered" but take some time to subsequently be installed based on hull readiness, but it is still somewhat remarkable as I wouldn't expect these major subsystems to be sitting around for too long after their delivery, and if we are expecting 004/00X to have these items ready to be installed on the hull (that we'd expect prior to launch), then these indicate the launch may be as soon as something like 2026/2027, yet we are now nearly at the end of 2023 and we have yet to see any indicators of 004/00X under fabrication let alone hull assembly.

It's very possible they may be able to spring a surprise on us and construct the hull rather quickly (the time of 003's hull construction being perhaps a bit prolonged than what the shipbuilding industry is actually capable due to the catapult change), but it is indeed a bit strange that we haven't heard anything decisive yet AFIK about 004/00X commencing fabrication work.

 

[Helius]

I was answering your suggestion of these elevators being "weapons elevators to internal cargo/personnel elevators." The size of hydraulics are porportional to the size of elevators, therefor the price.

74 million (73.7) only includes break, damper and control, nothing else. How much do you think the whole elevators would cost? Certinaly far more than your suggested unit cost (USD 2.5m). That is very expensive in my eyes for a personnel elevetor of some 10 people, or even a weapon elevtor of few tones, maybe it sounds cheap in US though.

Anyway, we are all spaculating.

And I was answering your suggestion of 74M RMB sounding "excessively expensive" for machinery for 4 sets of non-aircraft elevators (assuming your first thought didn't go straight to comparing price tags with the arrestor system and thought: "If that only costs 23mil then 74mil must be for something big" only to now realise it also includes the hydraulics so must now think of a way to downplay this so as to make the final article seem even more expensive as to rule it out as anything but), let alone 8 sets, let alone the machinery for actual aircraft elevators.

Yes we're speculating, and I'm speculating a 18M RMB/2.5M USD per unit cost for a hydraulics and control system i.e. "break, damper and control, nothing else" i.e. whole elevator sans pretty much the railing/pulley system and the platform itself which "in your eyes" would cost "far more" (how much more?) for even a weapons elevator which even for China would be quite a bargain, let alone for actual aircraft elevators. How much do you think such a system ought to cost?

Also while we're speculating, that weapons elevator "of a few tons" could conceivably be the electro-magnetic type, and those presumably wouldn't come cheap either even if we were to account for the hydraulics only, which presumably would be especially designed to work with EM rails and not your typical elevator hydraulics. So how much could a whole system conceivably cost? Double (36M RMB/$5M)? That sounds actually quite reasonable to me. Just one more possibility worth a slight ponder.

Of course I'm by no means ruling out aircraft elevators which for all we know could be just that, but I'm also not ruling anything else out either, which can just as reasonably cost as much as the purported price tag on that tender sheet.