00X/004 future nuclear CATOBAR carrier thread

[Engineer]

If another conventional powered CATOBAR was built I think it would come with gas turbine engines. The long startup times of steam turbines make them poorly suited for modern warfare.

No they wouldn't because that sort of design isn't sane and wouldn't be compatible with existing carriers. "Long start up time" isn't a valid argument here because it takes just as long to load up a carrier with supplies.

The fact the Type 003 comes with the steam turbines is probably more of a legacy trait due to it being originally designed to use steam catapults which would use steam generated from the boilers more than anything else.

Steam catapult would have just been icing on the cake. The Kuznetsov class has no catapults but is steam driven nonetheless. The fact is, steam propulsion has been the intention all along. It is the sane solution for ship of such size.

I agree that the next carrier to be built will likely be nuclear and they won't be building more conventional carriers. But I think this isn't necessarily a good idea for China in the short term. Since conventional carriers are typically cheaper to operate and China needs to get more experience with carrier ops, having at least some conventional carriers would likely be a good idea.

China have long had 28 MW gas turbines. Supposedly they now also have 40 MW gas turbines.
The Queen Elizabeth class uses two 36 MW gas turbines.

Type 003 has 30% more displacement than the Queen Elizabeth class. I think this would not be difficult to achieve with existing Chinese technology and equipment.

UK just doesn't have the expertise to build and maintain steam propulsion anymore. UK's carriers are examples of what not to do rather than something to be emulated.

China faces no such constrains. For historical reasons, China kept steam ships around far longer than Western navies. Not only that, China made a conscious decision to build the odd ball DDG 167 in the 90's. There is no question that China would continue with steam propulsion.

The gas turbines are more efficient than a boiler and steam turbine configuration. So it would also increase the range of the carrier. Plus the gas turbine is way more compact which would increase the internal space of the carrier.

Except they don't.

 

[taxiya]

@taxiya QE2 class hit 32 knots in speed tests, so they are not as underpowered as you assume.

yeah, Kitty Hawk would hit 38 knots if there is a competition. The lower power/tonnage ratio is always there. Worth to mention that QE2 is IEPS which means it can direct all the power to speed in a test, Hitty Hawk max propulsion power is limited to a percentage of its total power.

 

[ismellcopium]

So going by the timeline after 055's test structure was first spotted in Wuhan, IIRC Apr 2014, could we maybe expect 004 to enter service in roughly 2030 at the earliest? Pretty long gap after the Fujian.

 

[THX 1138]

By the time the Fujian enters service, almost 10 years will have passed since construction first began. The first Type 093 SSN also took about 10 years. So I think it will take at least that long again for the PLAN's first 100,000-ton nuclear powered super carrier.

I wouldn't expect to see one in service before 2036.

 

[ismellcopium]

By the time the Fujian enters service, almost 10 years will have passed since construction first began. The first Type 093 SSN also took about 10 years. So I think it will take at least that long again for the PLAN's first 100,000-ton nuclear powered super carrier.

I wouldn't expect to see one in service before 2036.

There were delays related to the catapult system though, and I expect things to be overall faster this time with more carrier related experience accumulated in all respects.

 

[lcloo]

Since the mock-up island is under contract tender stage I think the basic hull and structural design phase has completed. Next would be tendering for supply of components and steel materials. Thus earliest date of steel cutting would likely be in next year since steel factory would also need time to make those special grade steels for the aircraft carrier. There is a possibility that steel cutting might have already started but we don't have any confirmation.

IMO the earliest launch date would fall in the year 2032 or later.

 

[Hub]

So going by the timeline after 055's test structure was first spotted in Wuhan, IIRC Apr 2014, could we maybe expect 004 to enter service in roughly 2030 at the earliest? Pretty long gap after the Fujian.

In the post-Cold War era, the gaps were not long. The last Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, the USS H.W. Bush, was commissioned in January 2009, and the next, the USS Gerald R. Ford, was commissioned in July 2017.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

So going by the timeline after 055's test structure was first spotted in Wuhan, IIRC Apr 2014, could we maybe expect 004 to enter service in roughly 2030 at the earliest? Pretty long gap after the Fujian.

Fujian is expected to enter PLAN service no earlier than late-2025. If 004 is to enter service in the early-2030s, honestly I don't think that's a long gap, given how Shandong entered service 7 years after Liaoning.

There were delays related to the catapult system though, and I expect things to be overall faster this time with more carrier related experience accumulated in all respects.

Yes - But not quite.

Based on what we've seen a few days ago - The 004 is very likely to be CVN-19 instead of just CV-19. That means an entirely brand new field of propulsion (alongside entirely new sets of problems and challenges associated with marine nuclear propulsion technology) to deal with.

China has never operated a nuclear-powered surface ship, only nuclear-powered submarines. These two does share certain degree of similarities, but only at that.

 

[THX 1138]

Based on what we've seen a few days ago - The 004 is very likely to be CVN-19 instead of just CV-19.

I'm not sure if there's enough evidence at this point to dismiss the likelihood of another conventionally powered carrier.

In 2012, there were already prototypes for catapults before work even began on the Shandong. And later, construction started on the Fujian while the Shandong was still unfinished. So there's already a precedent for 2 carriers being built concurrently, with one carrier being more technologically ambitious than the other.

For all we know, we could start seeing tenders for two carriers in 2025. Construction could begin around 2026. One takes 10 years to enter service, because it's the PLAN's first nuclear powered carrier. But the other takes only half the time, because it's just a rehash of the Fujian. In this scenario, CV-19 could enter service around 2031 and followed by CVN-20 in 2036.

I know that's lot of ifs. But I think it's too soon to dismiss the likelihood of another conventionally powered carrier.

 

[gelgoog]

Unless they are already building it I think another large conventional carrier is highly unlikely.
Chinese SMR technology today is quite advanced. There is just no point in building such large conventional carriers anymore.