Ukrainian War Developments

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Abominable

Major
Registered Member

Mig transfer is dead until further notice.

Looks like the US doesn't want to take the risk themselves.

Only if the Polish and the other Mig users do it.
Shocking and unexpected, I know.
Now that's what I call de-escalation! I don't know why all this is being played out on twitter and not behind closed doorsI'm getting so much second hand embarrassment from it. In the cold war the Americans knew it was a bad idea to do your laundry in pubic. Still, its fun watching the drama unfold live and not from a book about it in 20 years.

I wonder if the Americans threatened Poland with expulsion from NATO and all current and future US military programmes if they try pulling off another stunt like this? From the wording of that statement I suspect they did.
 

ArmchairAnalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
Article 1

Relations between the Parties shall, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations and the Final Act of CSCE, be based on such principles of international law as sovereign equality, abstention from the threat or use of force, the inviolability of borders, territorial integrity, the peaceful settlement of disputes, noninterference in internal affairs, respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, as well as equal rights and the right of peoples to self-determination. The Parties shall conscientiously fulfil their obligations under international law and, in a spirit of neighbourliness, work for mutual partnership and coöperation with all countries.

Article 3

The Parties undertake to maintain the border between them as a border of good-neighbourliness and coöperation in accordance with the Final Act of CSCE, respecting its inviolability and each other's territorial integrity.

Article 4

The Parties shall refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the other Party and shall resolve disputes between themselves by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations and the Final Act of CSCE, as well as other CSCE instruments.

The Parties shall not use or allow the use of their territory for armed aggression against the other Party.

In the event that Finland or Russia is the victim of armed aggression, the other Party shall seek to bring about a settlement of the conflict in accordance with the principles and provisions of the Charter of the United Nations and CSCE instruments, and shall refrain from giving military assistance to the aggressor.

Article 5

The Parties shall work decisively to enhance the effectiveness of the United Nations and CSCE in the preservation of international peace and security. They shall support international efforts aimed at disarmament, weapons control and the strengthening of confidence and security in the military field.

Should a situation arise which threatens international peace and security, or, in particular, the security of one of the Parties, Finland and Russia shall, where necessary, enter into contact with each other with a view to using the methods stipulated by the United Nations and CSCE for the settlement of the conflict.
As I wrote, nothing in here contradicts Finnish NATO membership.
NATO is a defense pact (on paper at least) and not in armed aggression against Russia.
And the treaty would for sure have been brought up already if either the finns or the russians thought it'd matter.
But we are discussing semantics now...and very off-topic.
I provided links to two matter-of-fact articles, just read them.
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
Downed UAV and amoured train.
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Wrekage of Soviet era UAV. Looks like someone was about to take a piece home. A windfall.

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Russia sent amoured train to escort the civilian train evacuating civilian by railway from Kherson to Armiansk in Crimea.

Photo of the train on social media:

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Later confirmed by TASS and Zvezda:

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ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
If Putin losing, he's gone anyway... so the nuke option is clearly on the table for him. Not sure if the order will be followed tho.
See, you write this excellent, hard-hitting sentence and then immediately undermine it with the next sentence. Don't pull your punches.
Malyshev Plant in Kharkov, home of the T-80 is destroyed.
Russia bombed another... let me consult my NYT manual here... hospital kindergarten.
 

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
As I wrote, nothing in here contradicts Finnish NATO membership.
NATO is a defense pact (on paper at least) and not in armed aggression against Russia.
And the treaty would for sure have been brought already if either the finns or the russians thought it'd matter.
But we are discussing semantics now...and very off-topic.
I provided links to two matter-of-fact articles, just read them.
Finland's potential NATO membership contradicts everything in the 1992 Treaty on Finland's obligation to Russia and vice versa.

Since we're on the legality of the matter, and yes it's getting OT unless you want to argue Russo-Finnish relations are related to the war, which it actually is, those pieces you've linked to are nothing more than commentaries and rhetoric that has no legal bearing on the actual legality that governs Finnish and Russian relations at the state level, which is to be expected since these are written by political commentators at best, journalists at worst, certainly not by legal experts.

Finland isn't treaty-bound by the TEU to participate in mutual defence due to her neutral status. If she chooses to forsake her neutrality and join NATO it will be a political and practical decision, not a legal one no matter how the politicians would have you believe.

And by joining NATO Finland risks running afoul of the 1992 Treaty with Russia as Finland is indeed treaty-bound to remain neutral vis-a-vis Russia, and as such it gives grounds for Russia to treat her legal and political relationship with Finland as defined by the Treaty as void.

It therefore provides ammo for Russia to have a legitimate ground to cease being neutral to Finland, as Finland is no longer neutral to Russia.
 
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