Ukrainian War Developments

[Stealthflanker]

Anyone follows the 2nd round of peace talk ?

 

[ansy1968]

USA + allies still outproduce China + allies

But let's stop here.

That is an example of chest thumping.

• The $2.33 trillion U.S. manufacturing sector made up 11.6% of the country’s economic output in 2018.

BUT Sir Is prostitution services a part of productive opps!!! sorry my mistake production activity?

 

[AndrewS]

I would be surprised if these sanctions are EVER lifted. I think China and Russia (and maybe NK and Iran) may be religated to their own little world, in every sense of the word, while the rest of the world moves on.

Huh?

China is the world's largest trading nation.
So good luck with trying to isolate China.

---

Russia supplies 40% of gas imports to Europe.
Unless Europe wants electricity shortages, industrial shutdowns and unheated homes, they will continue to buy Russian gas.
We can see they carved out exemptions in SWIFT for these gas purchases.

 

[JebKerman]

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You can't dock here! But please... keep sending gas to us !

 

[ArmchairAnalyst]

Instead of looking at digital numbers which are easily manipulated why not look at a real world metric. How many warships can the US make a year vs how many can China make a year? Neither GDP nor the printing press that creates the fictional GDP can print new ships.

That remains to be seen.
China could probably outproduce the US long term. With no "interuptions or interference"
Add in all US allies.....no, not really. China needs allies and friends that matter, that's the real global contest. Can't do it alone.
And that's why Russia is a really poor tradeoff for the EU (if it comes down to that).

 

[Overbom]

Clear as day.
Hopefully people will now stop saying that
China will throw Russia under the bus.

"China Won’t Take Part in Western Financial Sanctions on Russia: Bank Regulator Chief"

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[daifo]

I don't know, Indian social media seem to have gone pretty wild about this. We all know how powerful the Indian twitter army are

I never thought I'd find myself agreeing with a WION report, but
https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/t4w36m Someone pinch me!

While Chinese media outlets are pretty neutral and ambivalent. India's are going full pro-Russia.

How long until we get a Bollywood film about a brave Indian student who fought off 200 Nazi Ukrainian border guards to get into Poland?

LOL, r/nfl lock the post already but they were fine with all the anti-china hong kong riots videos that fit their western narrative a couple years back.

 

[Abominable]

Well. That's been an interesting sojourn. Look at what's going on here. smh.

A couple bits, folks, I want to address.

First off, please, remember the mods stated no more 1 liner responses and mere posts of twitter. Please, add some analysis and commentary with some depth so we don't lose anymore drone salesmen.

The second item is a little long. I am probably going to do it a disservice and others might be able to explain it better or more eloquently. There is a narrative I am very annoyed by and have been since 2007 when I first heard it. I was naive - forgive me - and not heard it earlier. We are all young and dumb one point or another. Some of us grow out of it to be middle aged and dumb, though.

That narrative is being Russian speaking means an area is Russian. This is incorrect. The Donbas prior to 2014 was an area identifying itself as Ukrainian: these days it's different due to the massive population turnover. Odesa and Kharkov did and do see themselves as Ukrainian. There were people there who called themselves Russian, but the majority people who spoke Russian called themselves Ukrainian. This was not the case for Crimea, but Crimea is its own convoluted mess. People here and now are calling Kharkov and Odesa Russian. That's really incorrect.

It would be like saying parts of China are not China due to language. Southern China's language is very different than northern. Tibet and the western provinces (regions?) even more so. However, these are indelibly China. Language does not make them separate nations. That's beyond stupid and the people who claim otherwise have some nasty agendas involved.

Likewise, saying people with the same language should be united into a nation is dumb. I am 1000% sure the Australians, British, Canadians, Irish, etc. do not want to united in a single nation with Americans. Likewise, there are Americans who speak Spanish at home I know who are wildly opposed to being united with Mexico. They are of Mexican descent or their families settled their prior to Mexico's independence from Spain.

In addition, claiming Odesa or whatever is Russian because they used to be Russian is goofy on many levels, too. Donetsk was not founded by a Russian, but an Englishman. Kaliningrad wasn't built by Russians originally. It is very much Russia now. Only a few morons would dispute that.

Personal example, my family did not speak Ukrainian, at least at home and even day to day, except when calling those out west: they spoke Russian. They saw and see themselves as Ukrainian, except Baba Zoe. She was born in Russia and married a Ukrainian man during Soviet times. She was the only one allowed to remain in Gorlovka after 2014 and she died, alone, with her children and grandchildren unable to see her the four years after.

It is not to say there were not tensions between the Right and Left Banks or other areas. Carpatians have all sorts of nasty things to say about everyone! At least when I went there. I think I have seen people describing the same thing in China in this very thread. Those tensions are not to say people are not the same nationality though.

In summary, one should be very careful to not assume because a language is spoken there those people are Russian or Ukrainian. It isn't that simple.

This is not true. People from Odessa is a multiethnic city, but everyone there speaks Russian. If Anglos and the EU bankrupts themselves as they seem so intent to do, you'll find a lot of these Ukrainians suddenly becoming Russian. The truth is, there are a lot people on border territories who can identify with either side depending on what is favourable. That's why we refer to it in English as THE Ukraine.

I'm sure if the Crimea hadn't been by Russia in 2014, you'd be telling us all that Crimeans all see themselves as Ukrainian.

In China we're familiar with these games, it's called divide and conquer. In fact everyone in Asia and Africa knows this. Anglos have been trying it around the world for centuries.

You're going to claim that your an ethnic Russian from that region or whatever, and you may be right. If you are, you don't need to persuade us. Ukraine will go down the the Palestine or Afghanistan route and start to fight off their foreign occupiers.

Afghanistan wasn't Russia, the culture was too different. Americans sped things up but when the Soviets realised that they pulled out.

So far this seems more like a political conflict than a cultural one. No wonder you're struggling to find out who's the enemy and who isn't in Kiev.

 

[Strangelove]

Huh?

China is the world's largest trading nation.
So good luck with trying to isolate China.

---

Russia supplies 40% of gas imports to Europe.
Unless Europe wants electricity shortages, industrial shutdowns and unheated homes, they will continue to buy Russian gas.
We can see they carved out exemptions in SWIFT for these gas purchases.

It's impossible for the US to isolate or decouple from China, everything that they love and are addicted to comes from China - from fentanyl to rubber sex toys, and of course American freedom...all China made.

 

[AndrewS]

I would be surprised if these sanctions are EVER lifted. I think China and Russia (and maybe NK and Iran) may be religated to their own little world, in every sense of the word, while the rest of the world moves on.

It's China which is moving on from the USA in the trade war, and leaving the USA in its own little world. Statistics below.

Anyway, if you want to discuss China, there are other threads

But the supply chains aren't leaving China.

From 2019-2021, I get the following figures:

China: 32% increase in combined [imports + exports]
USA: 10% increase in combined [imports + exports]

It indicates that China is further globalising and at a much faster rate than the USA.
So it is China that is successfully decoupling its economy from the US.

At this rate, I reckon that next year, we will see China also becoming the world's largest importer ahead of the US.