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[voyager1]

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That some interesting timing isn't it

Very strange. It seems that the Biden summit will be hot air to soother Biden's ego and this one will be the real summit (not Biden's fake one)

 

[Andy1974]

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That some interesting timing isn't it

It sure is. I dont see why Xi should make major announcements at the US summit on the 22nd and 23rd, the US wants a climate “victory“ over China and want/need them to make more climate commitments at their summit.

If China makes more commitments then it should be at the UN summit in Glasgow or during this call with France and Germany thus denying Biden his victory.

If more commitments are made on Friday then the US summit can only really about what the US will do about climate, which would expose how ridiculous their efforts have been so far and leave China in a nice position.

 

[voyager1]

It sure is. I dont see why Xi should make major announcements at the US summit on the 22nd and 23rd, the US wants a climate “victory“ over China and want/need them to make more climate commitments at their summit.

If China makes more commitments then it should be at the UN summit in Glasgow or during this call with France and Germany thus denying Biden his victory.

If more commitments are made on Friday then the US summit can only realy about what the US will do about climate, which would expose how ridiculous their efforts have been so far and leave China in a nice position.

Agreed, screw the US. The only thing they are good at, is on hot air and nice PR. China doesnt care about the US. China should present its commitments to the UN.

The US can come back to the table when it credibly presents plans for combating climate change = Federal legislation

 

[quantumlight]

Innovation is done by people, and the more smart ones the better. Like Bezos said, he wants trillion of humans across the Solar System, becaus

Bezos is a glorified book seller blowing smoke... Creativity is not limited to human minds... AI will surpass or at very least augment human intellect and creativity in the future, being a massive multiplier force

If anything an automated society can be ran and operated efficently with far LESS people than currently, and we could have same standard of living/ output productivity on just 10% of current world population or much less

All you have to do is look at Amazon own warehouse and facilities to see this is the inevitable pattern and trend

Also, I guess you never heard of Peak Oil, deminishing global EROEI, climate change, and population overshoot

 

[hashtagpls]

Bezos is a glorified book seller blowing smoke... Creativity is not limited to human minds... AI will surpass or at very least augment human intellect and creativity in the future, being a massive multiplier force

If anything an automated society can be ran and operated efficently with far LESS people than currently, and we could have same standard of living/ output productivity on just 10% of current world population or much less

All you have to do is look at Amazon own warehouse and facilities to see this is the inevitable pattern and trend

Also, I guess you never heard of Peak Oil, deminishing global EROEI, climate change, and population overshoot

I’m prepared for Chinese and Asians to live at the expense of Indians and anglos; for instance the entire Indian subcontinent could be depopulated and rendered a nature preserve and carbon sink akin to the Amazon rainforest, with choice agriculture lands to support an additional billion Chinese across the lands of the five eyes

 

[ansy1968]

That’s one sub, where is the other?

Would be unusual to have two subs trailing the Liaoning, especially so for one of them to be a boomer, as their only (both in the SSBN and SSGN roles) job should literally be to just go and hide as far away from anything remotely hostile as possible.

If the USN is sending their boomers on such tailing missions, it would signal a dangerous degree of overconfidence in the untouchability of their subs. It would not surprise me at all if that was the case given the ridiculous amount of smoke the US submarine community have been blowing up their own arses for decades from living off their glory days making fools out of the Soviets.

But the PLAN is an entirely different class of opponent altogether, and if legit, this would positively be a textbook example of a major flex as a means to send a strong and unambiguous signal - your subs are nowhere like as untouchable as you seem to think.

This would be a significant capacity reveal, as the USN clearly would have had no idea their subs were basically sitting ducks in plain sight as far as the PLAN was concerned when the USN thought they were doing sneaky-sneaks beyond the sight and reach of the PLAN.

If real, this makes me even more worried something is about to go down with Taiwan, as you do not freely give up such a massive advantage.

Now the USN squids are going to be scared and scrambling to try to figure out just how vulnerable they really are and basically having to completely re-do all their risk assessments and operating procedures and would have no idea of their viability and survivability in a shooting war against the PLAN. Whereas before they would have had been the most (over) confident and gung-ho of any US military brand at the prospect of going hot against Chinese forces.

I cannot help but feel this was done to warn off the US from directly intervening in any Taiwan conflict by using their subs as first responders to try to score cheap kills.

It would obviously be far more impactful for the PLAN to continue keeping this secret till then, and absolutely annihilated the USN submarine fleet, but I think two main factors meant they preferred to scare them off instead.

Firstly, killing the entire USN pacific sub fleet would be a major scalp, but it would also mean China and America are in a direct shooting war with no clear or easy de-escalation path. And after such a humiliating and devastating opening blow, risks are high that the US would do something stupid to try to even the score that could cause things to go well and truly down the MAD path, which no one wants.

The second factor would be environmental. All USN subs are nuclear, and operating in a Taiwan scenario, they would all be killed close off the Chinese coast. Can you imagine the long lasting environmental catastrophe all those blown open reactors would cause just by themselves?

@plawolf which is more quieter the Ohios or the Virginias from what I know their newest SSN is more stealthy either way its a big psychological blow for the American, I myself is shock an outdated PLAN able to detect a US SSN or SSBN, need to stop reading Tom Clancy books...LOL. Like everybody here had said the SCS is a foregone conclusion as it become a Chinese lake, the PLAN surely had map out the sea beds and had their SOSUS line operational. Lest I can say in the Pacific, here the sea is deeper and an ideal hunting ground for the US sub, with these there will be changes in rotation as they focus their effort in the first Island Chain. The same can be said about the PLAN as both Carriers are now operating in this area, hopefully with more PLAN SSN being produce , they can able to challenge those US sub and let the SCS be taken care of by the PLAN Littoral forces (type 056 corvettes ).

 

[voyager1]

@plawolf which is more quieter the Ohios or the Virginias from what I know their newest SSN is more stealthy either way its a big psychological blow for the American, I myself is shock an outdated PLAN able to detect a US SSN or SSBN, need to stop reading Tom Clancy books...LOL. Like everybody here had said the SCS is a foregone conclusion as it become a Chinese lake, the PLAN surely had map out the sea beds and had their SOSUS line operational. Lest I can say in the Pacific, here the sea is deeper and an ideal hunting ground for the US sub, with these there will be changes in rotation as they focus their effort in the first Island Chain. The same can be said about the PLAN as both Carriers are now operating in this area, hopefully with more PLAN SSN being produce , they can able to challenge those US sub and let the SCS be taken care of by the PLAN Littoral forces (type 056 corvettes ).

But why should the US be surprised by their detection? If they are so delusional that they think their submarines are super duper alien technology then lol.

I now understand why the PLAN is obsessed with the type 056 ships. If they capable of detecting these subs then the PLAN will swarm the whole SCS with them

 

[ansy1968]

But why should the US be surprised by their detection? If they are so delusional that they think their submarines are super duper alien technology then lol.

I now understand why the PLAN is obsessed with the type 056 ships. If they capable of detecting these subs then the PLAN will swarm the whole SCS with them

@voyager1 submarine signature, I don't know if the PLAN had those especially the US SSBN and their latest SSN, its easy (strong of a word) to detect sub if you know what your searching for. But the US SSN and SSBN are design for deep sea operation, lets hope the PLAN are capable enough to challenge the US, its a tall order as the USN is a master in ASW warfare.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

Yea let’s just hope automation solves it in the way these futuristic predictions are made, and if not then cool Chinese are just fucked with an aging declining population.

This is so silly and mad. In fact, the PBOC in the link that was posted criticized this repeated talking point.

But I’ll go even further. Even if automation resolved this one aspect, it wouldn’t solve the problem of having less young and innovative minds to CREATE new technologies. While competitors may be growing their populations, your ideal world is for massive hopeful breakthroughs to be made so that we can just end up caring efficiently for a bunch of old people but with no future to show for it.

Innovation is done by people, and the more smart ones the better. Like Bezos said, he wants trillion of humans across the Solar System, because that’s a billion Einstein’s and Von Neumann’s.

But I guess your solution for that too is some hopeful dream of god-like AGI to replace Chinese youth, as if this is a bet that should be made! If AGI comes great, but such dreams can’t be relied on. The consequence of these technologies being delayed is China falling behind for decades if it doesn’t make sure it’s demographics are healthy as backup.

If China ends up in population decline and all we have to show for it is people speaking the same sentences about automation, then China is fucked like Japan is. They’ve been talking about automation since the 1980s.

Is Taiwan having the same demographic issue? Hong Kong? Or when talking about this demographic cataclysmic scenario excludes these two Chinese territories into the equation.

 

[Andy1974]

How could China “force” any US sub to the surface, it’s just not believable to me. Why would a detected sub not just leave the area, why would it surface?

And and Ohio in the SCS?, also seems unbelievable.