South China Sea Strategies for other nations (Not China)

[Blackstone]

President Ma plan is basically the same as what China want. Remember China concluded the joint development treaty with Philippine and Vietnam back in 2003. But American diplomacy spear headed by Hillary Clinton torpedo that by mobilizing Filipino nationalist opposition against the treaty and allow it to expire in 2008.

What evidence do you have to make such an outrageous charge? What were the circumstances? Who did what to whom? Facts, sunshine, we need facts, and not urban legends.

 

[Blackstone]

It seems to me that Malaysia was hoping that by taking China's side and by keeping quiet they could negotiate with the PRC a deal that would assure the PRC respecting Malaysian authority of the shoal in question. But by keeping a continuous presence of the Chinese Coast guard in the Malaysian EEZ and having watched other actions in the region Malaysia's government came to be convicted by China it's self that negotiations or assurances were not going to be happening. That they might be placed in a similar situation that we see in the Philippines.

Malaysia wouldn't be in the same boat as Philippines, because it's already included in China's Maritime Silk Road, and the Filipinos are out. As long as Kuala Lumpur doesn't irk Beijing too much, things will settle down after a few well chosen words for domestic consumption.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

The PRC actually has investments with the Philippines the PLA just did some Training and assistance with the Philippines armed forces against Maoist insurgents ( what a world! )and they were looking to sign a logistics deal. it may not be the Silk road but it shows the same duality of a diplomatic relation ship.

 

[shen]

What evidence do you have to make such an outrageous charge? What were the circumstances? Who did what to whom? Facts, sunshine, we need facts, and not urban legends.

I've posted about that in my past posts. Look it up in my post history, probably in the other countries SCS thread, too lazy to find the article now myself.

 

[Blackstone]

I've posted about that in my past posts. Look it up in my post history, probably in the other countries SCS thread, too lazy to find the article now myself.

Shen, link the source. It's highly doubtful the supposed article lists any specifics that could be independently verified. Philippines wasn't that important to the US in 2008, and Hillary Clinton didn't serve as Secretary of State until 2009, so she couldn't have diplomatically torpedoed Philippine's agreement with Vietnam to jointly develop resources. The whole thing doesn't add up.

 

[Zetageist]

Malaysia dispatches missile corvette to monitor China Coast Guard 'intrusion'
Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
11 June 2015

A photograph of a Chinese Coast Guard vessel near South Luconia Shoals was posted on Facebook by Shahidan Kassim, Malaysian Minister in the Prime Minister's Office. Source: Shahidan Kassim/Malaysian Prime Minister's Office
Key Points

• Malaysia has deployed a missile corvette to shadow a Chinese vessel in the South China Sea
• Incident could trigger Malaysia's strongest response yet to Chinese actions in the area

The Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) has deployed a Laksamana (Assad)-class guided-missile corvette to monitor a China Coast Guard (CCG) patrol vessel in the South China Sea, a RMN spokesperson confirmed to IHS Jane's on 9 June.

The 62 m corvette, KD Laksamana Hang Nadim (F 134), was deployed on 3 June in response to the presence of a Chinese vessel near what Malaysia refers to as Gugusan Beting Patinggi Ali (South Luconia Shoals), the spokesperson said. "As with all intrusions into Malaysian waters, the Chinese vessel is being monitored in accordance with our operating procedures", she added.

South Luconia Shoals is a collection of coral reefs located roughly 84 n miles off the Eastern Malaysian state of Sarawak. The area is referred to as Nankang Ansha in China and is claimed by Beijing as part of its maritime territory under the 'nine-dashed line' demarcation.

"The Chinese vessel has been warned to leave the area and our ship is monitoring it very closely", said the RMN spokesperson. The RMN declined, however, to give further details on Laksamana Hang Nadim 's operations or to reveal the current position of the Chinese vessel, adding only that the corvette was being accompanied by several Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency vessels.

A photograph of the CCG vessel was also posted on Facebook by Shahidan Kassim, Malaysian Minister in the Prime Minister's Office, taken from a Malaysian Coast Guard surveillance aircraft. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal on 8 June, the minister said that the issue of the CCG vessel's presence would be raised by Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak with Chinese President Xi Jinping.

According to IHS Jane's Fighting Ships , the CCG vessel depicted in the photograph is the 77 m Haijing 1123 , which was commissioned in December 2010. The vessel has a top speed of 20 kt and a gross tonnage of 1,149 tonnes.

Laksamana Hang Nadim is armed with one Oto Melara 76/62 Super Rapid main gun and two Breda twin 40 mm cannons. The corvette is also fitted for Otomat anti-ship and Aspide surface-to-air missiles.

IHS Jane's reported in April that Malaysia is considering installing Chinese-made equipment - which may include surface-to-surface missile launchers, fire-control radar, machine guns, and a combat management system - on its Laksamana-class corvettes, including Laksamana Hang Nadim .

 

[Jura The idiot]

...

Laksamana Hang Nadim is armed with one Oto Melara 76/62 Super Rapid main gun and two Breda twin 40 mm cannons. The corvette is also fitted for Otomat anti-ship and Aspide surface-to-air missiles.

...

seems like Laksamana-class was "down-armed" recently:

... Yes, the Laksamana class missile systems, the Aspide and the Otomat, have been retired as their RTN-10X fire control radar with Mk10 Argo fire control system are obsolete. A new electro-optical director will be used to control the 76mm and 40mm guns. The Laksamana class will also no longer be capable of anti-submarine warfare as their torpedo launchers have been transferred to ...

etc. according to

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(just saying what I found using google)

 

[Blackstone]

Straight from the Pentagon, the latest edition of "Art of talking past each other," brought to you by two two defense ministers just going through the motion.

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U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter met a top Chinese general on Thursday and repeated a U.S. call for a halt to land reclamation in the South

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Sea, while stressing that the Pentagon remained committed to expanding military contacts with China.

In the meeting with General Fan Changlong, a deputy head of China's powerful Central Military Commission, Carter stressed his commitment to developing "a sustained and substantive U.S.-China military-to-military relationship", the Pentagon said.

It said this would be based on a shared desire to deepen cooperation in areas including humanitarian assistance, disaster response, peacekeeping, counter-piracy, as well as "constructive management of differences".

In reiterating U.S. concerns about tensions in the South China Sea, Carter called on China and all rival claimants to halt land reclamation and militarization of disputed territory, and to pursue a peaceful resolution in accordance with international law, the Pentagon statement said.

Carter also reaffirmed his commitment to reach a consensus by September on a memorandum of understanding aimed at reducing the risk of accidents when the two countries' aircraft operate in close proximity, the statement said.

Fan told Carter that China's construction work in the South China Sea was mostly to improve living conditions in order to better protect its sovereignty. He also said China had a right to build on its own territory and deploy forces there, China's Defence Ministry said.

Fan also urged the United States to stop its military activities in the South China Sea.

"The South China Sea issue is only an interlude in Sino-U.S. ties and both sides should look further ahead and pay attention to more important and bigger international and regional issues," it paraphrased Fan as saying.

Fan's visit to the Pentagon was part of a week-long trip to the United States, which will include a meeting with U.S. National Security Adviser Susan Rice at the White House on Friday. Earlier this week, Fan visited the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan and U.S. military bases.

Wu Xi, deputy chief of mission at the Chinese embassy in Washington, said on Wednesday that Fan's trip was aimed at preparing the way for a visit by Chinese President Xi Jinping in September.

China protested to the United States last month after a U.S. spy plane with a television crew aboard flew close to artificial islands China has been building in the South China Sea.

The need for an understanding on air operations was shown last year when the Pentagon accused a Chinese fighter pilot of conducting a "dangerous intercept" of a U.S. Navy patrol plane by flying a few yards from the U.S. jet and performing acrobatic maneuvers around it.

 

[Zetageist]

Have you guys noticed in President Ma's letter, Taiwan (ROC) is not claiming 11-Dashed-Lines, the basis of China (PRC) 9-Dashed-Lines?

In the South China Sea, Taiwan has had personnel stationed on Taiping Island (also known as Itu Aba) since 1956. With a firm basis in history, geography and international law, Taiwan also claims the Nansha (Spratly), Shisha (Paracel), Chungsha (Macclesfield Bank) and Tungsha (Pratas) Islands and their surrounding waters as an inherent part of the Republic of China’s territory and waters.

 

[Blackstone]

Have you guys noticed in President Ma's letter, Taiwan (ROC) is not claiming 11-Dashed-Lines, the basis of China (PRC) 9-Dashed-Lines?

That's news to me. Last I checked, ROC did and does claim 11DL in SCS.