Crisis in the Ukraine

[Quickie]

Once again, if you value your life, don't ever take Malaysian Airlines:

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And should we be surprised the Flightradar24 link leads to nowhere?

Earlier you were asking why the hell Malaysian Airlines were flying through a war zone. You might as well direct the question to the 28 airlines (check the link below for the list) flying hundreds of flights using the same route seven days before the incident.

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Published: Monday July 21, 2014 MYT 12:00:00 AM
Updated: Monday July 21, 2014 MYT 8:04:54 AM
Air India pilots tried to contact MAS plane


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NEW DELHI: An Air India plane flying less than 25km from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 when it was downed had tried to make contact with the pilots, a newspaper reported.

The Times of India said Ukrainian air traffic controllers had asked the Air India pilots to try and establish contact with the Malaysia Airlines jet, which had stopped responding to its calls.

The Air India plane, which was flying from Delhi to Birmingham and was less than 25km from MH17, received no response, according to the paper.

“The AI Dreamliner was less than 25km from the Malaysian aircraft when the latter was hit by a missile,” an unidentified airline source told the newspaper.

“When the pilots learned of the cause of the crash later, they were stunned.”

According to the newspaper, it is standard practice for air traffic controllers to ask pilots of aircraft in the vicinity to get in touch with pilots who have stopped responding.

The newspaper also said that minutes before the crash, the Air India pilots heard air traffic controllers give the Malaysian plane a “direct routing”.



This allows a plane to fly straight rather than tracking from one navigation point to another, and saves time and fuel.

An Air India spokesman declined to comment on the report.

The report comes despite a denial by India’s civil aviation ministry last week that the Air India plane was close to the Malaysian jet, which was shot out of the sky over Ukraine’s troubled eastern region.

Singapore Airlines, which had a plane in the vicinity at the time of the tragedy had also claimed on Facebook that it did not fly over Ukrainian airspace, and was forced to apologise after being slammed by netizens.

A spokesman from the airlines said in a statement that it acknowledged that some may have found the statements insensitive.

Reports said the airline was actively flying over the Ukrainian airspace prior to the MH17 incident. However, all airlines have steered clear of the area since the incident.

Ukraine has accused Moscow of helping pro-Russian rebels to shoot down the Malaysian plane. — AFP

 

[solarz]

And should we be surprised the Flightradar24 link leads to nowhere?

Earlier you were asking why the hell Malaysian Airlines were flying through a war zone. You might as well direct the question to the 28 airlines (check the link below for the list) flying hundreds of flights using the same route seven days before the incident.

"But they were doing it too" is not a very credible defense when disaster happens. There's no doubt that flying over a war zone is a very stupid thing to do, but unfortunately, many airlines choose to do so just to save some money on fuel. Just because a lot of other airlines are also greedy doesn't let Malaysia Air off the hook.

Think about it another way: drunk driving is also a very dumb thing to do, yet many people still do it regardless. Not all drunk drivers get into accidents, but those that do get into accidents cannot point to the former to shift blame.

 

[Quickie]

"But they were doing it too" is not a very credible defense when disaster happens. There's no doubt that flying over a war zone is a very stupid thing to do, but unfortunately, many airlines choose to do so just to save some money on fuel. Just because a lot of other airlines are also greedy doesn't let Malaysia Air off the hook.

Think about it another way: drunk driving is also a very dumb thing to do, yet many people still do it regardless. Not all drunk drivers get into accidents, but those that do get into accidents cannot point to the former to shift blame.

It was very clear for whatever reason you were directing the accusation/blame to only one particular airline.

The bigger question should be why the flight route was declared safe and flyable by the international body that was responsible.

 

[PanAsian]

And should we be surprised the Flightradar24 link leads to nowhere?

Earlier you were asking why the hell Malaysian Airlines were flying through a war zone. You might as well direct the question to the 28 airlines (check the link below for the list) flying hundreds of flights using the same route seven days before the incident.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Published: Monday July 21, 2014 MYT 12:00:00 AM
Updated: Monday July 21, 2014 MYT 8:04:54 AM
Air India pilots tried to contact MAS plane


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Facebook
0

NEW DELHI: An Air India plane flying less than 25km from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 when it was downed had tried to make contact with the pilots, a newspaper reported.

The Times of India said Ukrainian air traffic controllers had asked the Air India pilots to try and establish contact with the Malaysia Airlines jet, which had stopped responding to its calls.

The Air India plane, which was flying from Delhi to Birmingham and was less than 25km from MH17, received no response, according to the paper.

“The AI Dreamliner was less than 25km from the Malaysian aircraft when the latter was hit by a missile,” an unidentified airline source told the newspaper.

“When the pilots learned of the cause of the crash later, they were stunned.”

According to the newspaper, it is standard practice for air traffic controllers to ask pilots of aircraft in the vicinity to get in touch with pilots who have stopped responding.

The newspaper also said that minutes before the crash, the Air India pilots heard air traffic controllers give the Malaysian plane a “direct routing”.



This allows a plane to fly straight rather than tracking from one navigation point to another, and saves time and fuel.

An Air India spokesman declined to comment on the report.

The report comes despite a denial by India’s civil aviation ministry last week that the Air India plane was close to the Malaysian jet, which was shot out of the sky over Ukraine’s troubled eastern region.

Singapore Airlines, which had a plane in the vicinity at the time of the tragedy had also claimed on Facebook that it did not fly over Ukrainian airspace, and was forced to apologise after being slammed by netizens.

A spokesman from the airlines said in a statement that it acknowledged that some may have found the statements insensitive.

Reports said the airline was actively flying over the Ukrainian airspace prior to the MH17 incident. However, all airlines have steered clear of the area since the incident.

Ukraine has accused Moscow of helping pro-Russian rebels to shoot down the Malaysian plane. — AFP

Regardless of how many planes were flying over the vicinity then or how many countries/governments. or regulations (or lack thereof), or airlines decide to have civilian planes fly through warzones, it just does not make sense if their priorities put lives above profits or opportunities for propaganda.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Once again, if you value your life, don't ever take Malaysian Airlines:

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Guys,

While I'm sure Malaysian Airlines has it's share of issues let's be objective and fair. If you are flying from Europe to South East Asia there are almost no corridors or way points that allows you to fly over 100% super safe zones.

Most commercial airlines fly at FL 30 - Fl 35 which would eliminate almost ALL air threats and that is why the incident with MH 17 is so isolated and made the news because to reach that altitude requires sophisticated medium to long range SAM systems like the BUK, S-300, Patriot etc. By eliminating AAA and ManPADs you've essentially eliminated 99% of the threat posed by terrorists or non state rogue groups.

Every single event in that past that has brought down commercial airliners mid flight via missiles had been state sponsored or direct engagement of the state's asset.

 

[solarz]

Guys,

While I'm sure Malaysian Airlines has it's share of issues let's be objective and fair. If you are flying from Europe to South East Asia there are almost no corridors or way points that allows you to fly over 100% super safe zones.

I would disagree:

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Along that corridor, only Syria, Iraq, and the Donetsk region of Ukraine are active conflict zones. There are plenty of ways to bypass them.

 

[solarz]

It was very clear for whatever reason you were directing the accusation/blame to only one particular airline.

The bigger question should be why the flight route was declared safe and flyable by the international body that was responsible.

That's because this particular airline also had another catastrophe with all lives lost.

As for the "bigger question", I would direct you to this article:

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I would also bring up the fact that no US airlines were traveling over the region due to federal instructions. In the end, each airline is responsible for their own decisions. It's not like Malaysia Air wasn't aware of the recent shoot-downs in the Donetsk region.

 

[kwaigonegin]

I would disagree:

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Along that corridor, only Syria, Iraq, and the Donetsk region of Ukraine are active conflict zones. There are plenty of ways to bypass them.

and with all due respect the path you shown takes it through Iran and Afghanistan which is not exactly like flying over Norway or Sweden.

 

[Quickie]

Regardless of how many planes were flying over the vicinity then or how many countries/governments. or regulations (or lack thereof), or airlines decide to have civilian planes fly through warzones, it just does not make sense if their priorities put lives above profits or opportunities for propaganda.

Agree 100%.

Again, I'll repeat.

The bigger question should be why the flight route was declared safe and flyable by the international body that was responsible. This is also taking into account, besides what were already said above, airlines may not have the ability to access the danger of a particular flight route.

 

[Quickie]

That's because this particular airline also had another catastrophe with all lives lost.

As for the "bigger question", I would direct you to this article:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I would also bring up the fact that no US airlines were traveling over the region due to federal instructions. In the end, each airline is responsible for their own decisions. It's not like Malaysia Air wasn't aware of the recent shoot-downs in the Donetsk region.

Huh? Just because of an earlier tragedy, the airline is automatically guilty of the next one? What kind of logic is that?

What about the party who shot the plane down. They are less guilty?