East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

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BigWang

Banned Idiot
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

I respectfully disagree. Doing so would only harm China's international reputation (if any good left)

Like you said it, whatever left is Not important anymore at this point. One big criticism of the Chinese government at home is about worrying the Face Value to much and worry too much about how others see it. Majority of people at home want government to have a stronger response.

If you don't believe you can go to Chinese side news and do some google translation.

Hey, it's not what outsiders think is important, what do the people feel at homeland think is much more important.
 

BigWang

Banned Idiot
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

I doubt China will overreact to the measured and mild response from the US to mollify American public, pacify Japan, reassure China's nervous neighbors, and not unnecessarily provoke China. In other words, textbook International Relations finesse by the Americans. President Obama and his team handled this hot potato well.

Finesse? Mild? by the puppet master, What the US did is to set an vice example and set the fuse,and Japan and Korea to follow sending their military planes into CHina ADIZ zone. China government didn't respond at first.

And folks at Motherland are outrageous, demanding China government to do something, so under the strong reaction from home crowd, China now start to send out AWAC and Jet fighters up there to patrol.

In other word, under US puppet master string pulling, the situation has escalated.


Shessh.
 

i.e.

Senior Member
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Now,
I would like to use this thread to dispel One myth frequently repeated in mainstream media and spinned by those who are in power to somehow make chinese ADIZ rules look like unreasonable and provocative.


(Mods, I can't post a new thread for some reason. pls indulge me here)


C-ADIZ( Chinese Air Defense Indentification Zone) rules, at first look, requires that ALL aircraft to maintain contact and file flight plans, operating with in the zone, is somehow, out of ordinary.

when questioned in detail as to why an CADIZ is BAD vs a Good JADIZ, it is often phrased like this:

"Its ‘rules’ demanding that aircraft identify themselves and obey Chinese direction on flight paths seem to apply to all aircraft in the zone and not only aircraft en route to China. This conflicts with the basic early warning and air-traffic control purposes of an ADIZ, and with longstanding Pentagon regulations advising US military aircraft to comply with a foreign ADIZ only when they flying on a course into that country’s airspace, not when they are simply in transit or on patrol."

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Notice it is from Lowy Institute... more on that later.

emphasis added.

The gullible public just ate it up. Sadly, this also include a fellow like James Fallows who is an Journalist who covers china and has extensive General Aviation Knowledge. (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
)

Well, True
FAA rules on ADIZ is that you only need to maintain radio contact and file a flight plan if you are on route entering a US territorial destination:
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But what about other.
What about Australian's. its neutral enough right? sits out of the way of the conflict.

carefully read this
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and a casual search of australian government Civil Aviation Safety Authority's website will yield this VFR (Visual Flying Rule) Guide
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in which it states (page 321) :

"The following general rules and procedures apply to enable identification of air
traffic entering any designated Air Defence Identification Zone (ADIZ) under
the control of Australia.
An ADIZ is airspace of defined dimensions within which identification of all
aircraft is required.

When a flight is intended to operate within an ADIZ, the pilot, unless
exempted in accordance with para 4
, must;
( Blah Blah Blah )
The following flights over Australia and its territorial waters are exempted
from compliance with the requirements of para 3;
a flight originating within an ADIZ which maintains a steady outbound track;
a flight which remains within 10 nm of the point of departure;
aircraft performing published approach, holding or recovery
procedures; and
a flight conducted in accordance with special procedures arranged with
the Area Air Defence Commander."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


You mean, according the Published rules of Government of Australia, ALL aircraft operating in Australian ADIZ has to ID itself? no matter it is just passing through?

Wait. Isn't that the same as the Chinese ADIZ rules?

So what's that thing about Chinese ADIZ rule being unreasonable? and provocative?

by-the-way, Lowy Institute is based in Sydney.

Happy Thanksgiving Day, you gullible has just been gobbled!
 
Last edited:

Scyth

Junior Member
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Like you said it, whatever left is Not important anymore at this point. One big criticism of the Chinese government at home is about worrying the Face Value to much and worry too much about how others see it. Majority of people at home want government to have a stronger response.

If you don't believe you can go to Chinese side news and do some google translation.

Hey, it's not what outsiders think is important, what do the people feel at homeland think is much more important.

Even though I stated "whatever good is left", China's reputation is still nowhere near as bad as North Korea or Syria.

Criticism on the government is always a given for a politician. That must never be the reason to do something. As a leader one needs to lead your country to a better future. If one only takes actions in order to please your own people, you'll take steps like Japan and create issues that were somewhat solved or not existing. This may lead to economic, political and military consequences that will harm the prosperity of a country.
 

BigWang

Banned Idiot
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

Even though I stated "whatever good is left", China's reputation is still nowhere near as bad as North Korea or Syria.

Criticism on the government is always a given for a politician. That must never be the reason to do something. As a leader one needs to lead your country to a better future. If one only takes actions in order to please your own people, you'll take steps like Japan and create issues that were somewhat solved or not existing. This may lead to economic, political and military consequences that will harm the prosperity of a country.

Why outsiders always have to reminding us Chinese we have to worry our own reputation? what's the deal?
 

i.e.

Senior Member
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

If humans can agree on one thing it should be this. no matter what the interest and beliefs are. It is nearly present in the core beliefs of nearly all religious and ethical guidelines over the course of human history.
it is nearly universal as one can get.
One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


If china publish an ADIZ rule nearly same as Australia's (one of closest allies of US in Asia), over much of the same airspace as JADIZ covers, why should China be criticized? This is against the Golden Rule. and those who throw the first stone...

So.

Just give me one rational, merit based, non-politicized reason?


=== commentary ===
This whole media broohaha about Chinese ADIZ makes me sick as a aviation professional and as a decent rational thinking human being. one can not but wonder at the un-ethical-ness of this near mass lynching of China in the media.
yes, I used the word Lynching, because this is exactly what it is, a mass Lynching with-out the ropes by the school yard's Bullys and their friends, who are doing it now because they can and they know they can't do it later.

yes, china is but a scrawny teenager on the world's stage. but Eventually it will grow up to be bigger. If this is what china gets treated now, one must wonder what will china do when it "grows up", bullied teenagers usually don't make a good adults...
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

And folks at Motherland are outrageous, demanding China government to do something, so under the strong reaction from home crowd, China now start to send out AWAC and Jet fighters up there to patrol.

In other word, under US puppet master string pulling, the situation has escalated.


Shessh.

Well, from my view from Baidu Tieba, this is what China wanted from the start. Now if China send out AWAC and Jet fighters up there to patrol. Instead of being aggressive, it's now defensive. And China can now do it routinely, up combat readiness of the entire area and all within a defensive contest.
 

BigWang

Banned Idiot
Re: US incursion in new Chinese ADIZ: no reaction from China

The way I see it, US and its allies aren't back down and China sure ain't gonna back down.

But to prevent major military escalation yet keep the constant pressure on, and even if its ADIZ continuously being violated, let it be, China then should resort to low level economic punishment against the relevant countries regardless of its international reputation. Well, international reputation is a Sham, its devised by the west and used to constrict China's movement anyway, China should care less. Media Lynching, let it be.

The ADIZ is gonna stay, and countries will get used to it eventually. It will become Defacto.

Also, China need something stronger to shift this ADIZ attention. Maybe like testing a MIRVed Nuke missile from Water east of Hawaii, and flight thru westward and land in Lop Nor.
 
Last edited:

i.e.

Senior Member
The Myth of C-ADIZ's unreasonable, unprecedented and provocative "All ID rule".

Now,
I would like to use this thread to dispel One myth frequently repeated in mainstream media and spinned by those who are in power to somehow make Chinese ADIZ rules look like unreasonable and provocative.


C-ADIZ( Chinese Air Defense Identification Zone) rules, at first look, requires that ALL aircraft to maintain contact and file flight plans, operating with in the zone, is somehow, out of ordinary. out of

when questioned in detail as to why an CADIZ is BAD vs a Good JADIZ, it is often phrased like this:

"Its ‘rules’ demanding that aircraft identify themselves and obey Chinese direction on flight paths seem to apply to all aircraft in the zone and not only aircraft en route to China. This conflicts with the basic early warning and air-traffic control purposes of an ADIZ, and with longstanding Pentagon regulations advising US military aircraft to comply with a foreign ADIZ only when they flying on a course into that country’s airspace, not when they are simply in transit or on patrol."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Notice it is from Lowy Institute... more on that later.

emphasis added.

The gullible public just ate it up. Sadly, this also include a fellow like James Fallows who is an Journalist who covers china and has extensive General Aviation Knowledge. (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
)

Well, True, FAA rules on ADIZ is that you only need to maintain radio contact and file a flight plan if you are on route entering a US territorial destination:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


But what about others.
What about Australian's. its neutral enough right? sits out of the way of the conflict, .

and a casual search of Australian government Civil Aviation Safety Authority's website will yield this VFR (Visual Flying Rule) Guide
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


in which it states (page 321, carefully read this ) :

"The following general rules and procedures apply to enable identification of air
traffic entering any designated Air Defence Identification Zone (ADIZ) under
the control of Australia.
An ADIZ is airspace of defined dimensions within which identification of all
aircraft is required.

When a flight is intended to operate within an ADIZ, the pilot, unless
exempted in accordance with para 4
, must;
( Blah Blah Blah )
The following flights over Australia and its territorial waters are exempted
from compliance with the requirements of para 3;
a flight originating within an ADIZ which maintains a steady outbound track;
a flight which remains within 10 nm of the point of departure;
aircraft performing published approach, holding or recovery
procedures; and
a flight conducted in accordance with special procedures arranged with
the Area Air Defence Commander."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


You mean, according the Published rules of Government of Australia, ALL aircraft operating in Australian ADIZ has to ID itself? no matter it is just passing through?

Wait. Isn't that the same as the Chinese ADIZ rules?

So what's that thing about Chinese ADIZ "All ID" rule being unreasonable? and provocative? unprecedented?

by-the-way, Lowy Institute is based in Sydney. and surely it should know that Australian Government itself has the nearly the same rule with regard to its own ADIZ?

Happy Thanksgiving Day, you gullible has just been gobbled!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

i.e.

Senior Member
Re: The Myth of C-ADIZ's unreasonable, unprecedented and provocative "All ID rule".

=== commentary ===

If humans can agree on one thing it should be this. no matter what the interest and beliefs are. It is nearly present in the core beliefs of nearly all religious and ethical guidelines over the course of human history.
it is nearly universal as one can get.
One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated
Golden Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If china publish an ADIZ rule nearly same as Australia's (one of closest allies of US in Asia), over much of the same airspace as JADIZ covers, why should China be criticized? This is against the Golden Rule. and those who throw the first stone...

So.

Just give me one rational, merit based, non-politicized reason?


This whole media broohaha about Chinese ADIZ makes me sick as a aviation professional and as a decent rational thinking human being. one can not but wonder at the un-ethical-ness of this near mass lynching of China in the media.
yes, I used the word Lynching, because this is exactly what it is, a mass Lynching with-out the ropes by the school yard's Bullys and their friends, who are doing it now because they can and they know they can't do it later.

yes, china is but a scrawny teenager on the world's stage. but Eventually it will grow up to be bigger. If this is what china gets treated now, one must wonder what will china do when it "grows up", bullied teenagers usually don't make a good adults...
 
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