Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Thanks, Franklin, I went back and corrected my original post per this link. Great dig!
Wow, India is issuing a major tender for LHDs now.
This is a big deal. It goes back to the for Amphibious/Air Assault operations and Humanitarian relief. Back then they indicated that the minimum criteria for those vessels would be:
1.Size: Has to be comparable to or bigger than INS Jalashwa. (Former USS Trenton, Austin Class LPD)
2.Aviation facilities: landing spots for 5-6 helicopters and an aviation deck to carry 10 Heavy Helicopters.
3.Storage Space: Enough room for one battalion of 1,000 fully armed soldiers or a squadron of tanks.
4.Weapons carrying capability: Must be able to carry heavy weapon systems and infantry combat vehicles.
5.Range: Must be capable of covering large distances [10,000 kilometres (6,200 mi) or more].
6.Special Features: Specialized areas from hospital facilities to naval command centers.
Now, we have an actual tender with monies funded for them, and it sounds like they are wanting them to be indigenous.
This is a big deal. It goes back to the for Amphibious/Air Assault operations and Humanitarian relief. Back then they indicated that the minimum criteria for those vessels would be:
1.Size: Has to be comparable to or bigger than INS Jalashwa. (Former USS Trenton, Austin Class LPD)
2.Aviation facilities: landing spots for 5-6 helicopters and an aviation deck to carry 10 Heavy Helicopters.
3.Storage Space: Enough room for one battalion of 1,000 fully armed soldiers or a squadron of tanks.
4.Weapons carrying capability: Must be able to carry heavy weapon systems and infantry combat vehicles.
5.Range: Must be capable of covering large distances [10,000 kilometres (6,200 mi) or more].
6.Special Features: Specialized areas from hospital facilities to naval command centers.
Now, we have an actual tender with monies funded for them, and it sounds like they are wanting them to be indigenous.
Interesting. Do we have any idea what kind of numbers they are seeking? Such ships are not cheap and an LHD of the size they want could easily amount to a displacement near their current. INS viraat.
That's. not to say their say their shipbuilding industry can't necessarily produce such vessels. I'm sure they have the tech, and they are building INS Vikrant ATM too. The question is whether they can manage costs, and more importantly, what kind of time frame they can deliver it on.
All recent Indian built surface combatants have suffered massive delays and their construction to commissioning cycles last near a decade if not more. An LHD would prove a challenge especially for subsystem integration, which the Indian shipbuilding industry seems to lack in particular.
In that sense, the construction rate of Vikrant will be a litmus test of how well the foreseeable Indian shipbuilding industry can do with large technical challenging projects. Building a hull is easy. Sticking in all the subcomponents and systems and integrating them, are not.
That's. not to say their say their shipbuilding industry can't necessarily produce such vessels. I'm sure they have the tech, and they are building INS Vikrant ATM too. The question is whether they can manage costs, and more importantly, what kind of time frame they can deliver it on.
All recent Indian built surface combatants have suffered massive delays and their construction to commissioning cycles last near a decade if not more. An LHD would prove a challenge especially for subsystem integration, which the Indian shipbuilding industry seems to lack in particular.
In that sense, the construction rate of Vikrant will be a litmus test of how well the foreseeable Indian shipbuilding industry can do with large technical challenging projects. Building a hull is easy. Sticking in all the subcomponents and systems and integrating them, are not.
Well, in the 2011-2012 discussions they specifically stated a need for four of them. See the link in my earlier post (the second link, the one after the quote).
As to their shipbuilding and specifically their time to commission after launch. The Kolkata's are finally getting on in their process. The Kolkata is out on sea trials and should be commissioned soon.
However, the new Shivalik vessels, which displace 6,300 tons, have a better record (the last one was done in 6 years)...and are very capable, large multi-mission firgates. So perhaps they are getting over the hump.
We shall see.
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Ah thanks jeff, so four it is.
Well, the shivaliks aren't much better than the kolkata class, unfortunately.
From Wikipedia,
INS shivalik, laid down in July 2001, launched April 2003, sea trials February 2009, commissioned April 2010
INS satpura, October 2002, June 2004, 2010, August 2011
INS sahyadri, September 2003, may 2005, 2011, July 2012
Even if we are lenient and ignore the fact that it took two years from laying down the keel to launch, it is still seven years for each ship from launch to commissioning!!!
That kind of schedule would be unacceptable for a western or East Asian navy.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
The problem with pretty much all Indian Defence projects is as much, if not more to do with leadership rather than technological know how.
Obviously technology is a bottleneck, but the main problem that causes all these ridiculous delays with everything the Indians try to make themselves is totally unrealistic expectations and a far too high opinion of where India stands technologically and economically. That leads to completely unrealistic design goals, which in turn leads to slippages in the timetable and/or price hikes as foreign subsystems have to be sourced when India cannot produce ones of high enough capacity to meet the unrealistic demands of their leaders.
It does not help that India keeps not only comparing itself to China, but rather tries to match or even play one up man ship with Chinese defence projects with little regard to the vast and growing technological and economical gulf between the two rising powers. This often leads Indian leaders to move the goalposts of their projects midway through development as China unveils some new breakthrough.
Because of this, India's shockingly poor project delay problems are both easier and harder to solve than if it was just one caused by technological bottlenecks.
As soon as Indian leaders can learn to look at their own capacities objectively and conservatively and adjust their demands and specifications accordingly, and resist moving the goalposts during development, then I see no reason why Indian defence projects cannot keep to a realistic schedule. But getting entitled politicians to change their ways when they have a democratic mandate inflating their sense of self importance and worth to ludicrous levels is no mean feat.
Obviously technology is a bottleneck, but the main problem that causes all these ridiculous delays with everything the Indians try to make themselves is totally unrealistic expectations and a far too high opinion of where India stands technologically and economically. That leads to completely unrealistic design goals, which in turn leads to slippages in the timetable and/or price hikes as foreign subsystems have to be sourced when India cannot produce ones of high enough capacity to meet the unrealistic demands of their leaders.
It does not help that India keeps not only comparing itself to China, but rather tries to match or even play one up man ship with Chinese defence projects with little regard to the vast and growing technological and economical gulf between the two rising powers. This often leads Indian leaders to move the goalposts of their projects midway through development as China unveils some new breakthrough.
Because of this, India's shockingly poor project delay problems are both easier and harder to solve than if it was just one caused by technological bottlenecks.
As soon as Indian leaders can learn to look at their own capacities objectively and conservatively and adjust their demands and specifications accordingly, and resist moving the goalposts during development, then I see no reason why Indian defence projects cannot keep to a realistic schedule. But getting entitled politicians to change their ways when they have a democratic mandate inflating their sense of self importance and worth to ludicrous levels is no mean feat.
