Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

[Jason_]

Suppose there are two air forces. One has a much larger number of fighter jets, while the other has a smaller fighter fleet but a higher aircraft availability rate, more loyal wingman drones, AWACS, aerial refueling tankers, electronic warfare aircraft, and a stronger surface-to-air missile network. It also has all of these systems seamlessly integrated into a single operational framework.

Which air force do you think would be more effective, the one with more fighter jets, or the one with a better overall force structure and a more integrated combat capability?

Yes, that is why Pakistan Air Force is more effective than Indian Air Force.

	PAF	IAF
larger number of fighter jets		✓
higher aircraft availability rate	✓
electronic warfare aircraft	✓
AWACS	✓
stronger surface-to-air missile network	✓
all of these systems seamlessly integrated into a single operational framework	✓
better overall force structure	✓
more integrated combat capability	✓
Overall effectiveness	✓

 

[AlexYe]

higher aircraft availability rate, more loyal wingman drones, AWACS, aerial refueling tankers, electronic warfare aircraft, and a stronger surface-to-air missile network. It also has all of these systems seamlessly integrated into a single operational framework.

Bruh you do realise that that is PLAAF right? They have more awacs than india, tankers, more experience in EW, many many types of missile dominance and more importantly they are prob the most seamlessly integrated networked airforce on earth or equal to US.

Hell PAF has more awacs and more network integration than IAF (indian airforce not israel, although funny how both are IAF)

 

[Anhad]

Bruh you do realise that that is PLAAF right? They have more awacs than india, tankers, more experience in EW, many many types of missile dominance and more importantly they are prob the most seamlessly integrated networked airforce on earth or equal to US.

Hell PAF has more awacs and more network integration than IAF (indian airforce not israel, although funny how both are IAF)

I don't have access to enough information on the Indian and Chinese air forces to assess their qualitative and quantitative strengths comprehensively. This is the kind of analysis that dedicated organizations like WDMMA conduct. Such research requires access to vast amounts of data and is not something an individual can realistically do.

WDMMA has ranked the Indian Air Force above the Chinese Air Force, and in the past, several international organizations have also placed the Indian Air Force ahead of the Chinese Air Force. Some earlier rankings even placed the Israeli Air Force above the Chinese Air Force.

 

[AlexYe]

I don't have access to enough information on the Indian and Chinese air forces to assess their qualitative and quantitative strengths comprehensively. This is the kind of analysis that dedicated organizations like WDMMA conduct. Such research requires access to vast amounts of data and is not something an individual can realistically do.

WDMMA has ranked the Indian Air Force above the Chinese Air Force, and in the past, several international organizations have also placed the Indian Air Force ahead of the Chinese Air Force. Some earlier rankings even placed the Israeli Air Force above the Chinese Air Force.

WDMMA uses publicly available open source data, all of this stuff is easily searchable, you have google.

 

[siegecrossbow]

WDMMA uses publicly available open source data, all of this stuff is easily searchable, you have google.

Haven’t looked but does WDMMA still claim that IAF operates superior helo fleet because they failed to account for the fact that most of the helos are operated by PLAGF?

 

[PiSigma]

Yes, that is why Pakistan Air Force is more effective than Indian Air Force.

	PAF	IAF
larger number of fighter jets		✓
higher aircraft availability rate	✓
electronic warfare aircraft	✓
AWACS	✓
stronger surface-to-air missile network	✓
all of these systems seamlessly integrated into a single operational framework	✓
better overall force structure	✓
more integrated combat capability	✓
Overall effectiveness	✓

I love how Anhad thinks India have better integrated air force when they have planes imported from 5 different countries and parts from a few more. None of which can talk to each other. While China is retiring J11s and now have everything made domestically. Literally the list but have triple check marks for every category with a 2 generation advancement.

Higher quality and newer and more advanced aircraft. Higher availability rate, electronic and AWACS out number everyone but the US. All of it integrated with every branch with much better force structure.

Generations ahead of India in missile tech.

WDMMA assigns a lot of points to future procurement. India have a wishlist for hundreds of planes, even though they are obsolete 4th gen Tejas, it gets assigned a ton of points. China buys hundreds of planes a year all 5th gen and specialized aircraft, but don't publish it, this assigned 0 future procurement and no points.

This is the typically BS in = BS out.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I love how Anhad thinks India have better integrated air force when they have planes imported from 5 different countries and parts from a few more. None of which can talk to each other. While China is retiring J11s and now have everything made domestically. Literally the list but have triple check marks for every category with a 2 generation advancement.

Higher quality and newer and more advanced aircraft. Higher availability rate, electronic and AWACS out number everyone but the US. All of it integrated with every branch with much better force structure.

Generations ahead of India in missile tech.

WDMMA assigns a lot of points to future procurement. India have a wishlist for hundreds of planes, even though they are obsolete 4th gen Tejas, it gets assigned a ton of points. China buys hundreds of planes a year all 5th gen and specialized aircraft, but don't publish it, this assigned 0 future procurement and no points.

This is the typically BS in = BS out.

Reminds me of this legendary shitpost from less credible defense.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/1ki6dfy
Proof that any sufficiently deranged Jai Hind is indistinguishable from parody.

 

[Anhad]

I love how Anhad thinks India have better integrated air force when they have planes imported from 5 different countries and parts from a few more. None of which can talk to each other. While China is retiring J11s and now have everything made domestically. Literally the list but have triple check marks for every category with a 2 generation advancement.

Higher quality and newer and more advanced aircraft. Higher availability rate, electronic and AWACS out number everyone but the US. All of it integrated with every branch with much better force structure.

Generations ahead of India in missile tech.

WDMMA assigns a lot of points to future procurement. India have a wishlist for hundreds of planes, even though they are obsolete 4th gen Tejas, it gets assigned a ton of points. China buys hundreds of planes a year all 5th gen and specialized aircraft, but don't publish it, this assigned 0 future procurement and no points.

This is the typically BS in = BS out.

I don't know all the current procurement orders of the Indian Air Force, but six indigenous Netra AWACS, 183 Tejas Mk1A fighter aircraft, and hundreds of Astra-series beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missiles are on order. The Super Sukhoi upgrade program, under which the Su-30MKI fleet will receive indigenous avionics, is also underway. There were also plans to equip the Rafale with the indigenous Uttam AESA radar, but the proposal was shelved because the integration cost quoted by Dassault was considered too high.

With avionics across AWACS, fighter aircraft, drones, and missiles increasingly becoming indigenous, seamless information sharing between platforms becomes much easier. This level of integration and cohesiveness is a major advantage for any air force and acts as a significant force multiplier in modern air combat.

As for the claim that Chinese-made systems are superior in quality to Indian-made systems, I mostly hear that argument from Chinese commentators. I rarely hear the same claim from India or from analysts in other countries. In fact, I can point to statements by some retired Pakistani military officers and defense analysts who have argued that Indian-made defense systems are superior to their Chinese counterparts in terms of quality.

 

[valysre]

As for the claim that Chinese-made systems are superior in quality to Indian-made systems, I mostly hear that argument from Chinese commentators. I rarely hear the same claim from India or from analysts in other countries. In fact, I can point to statements by some retired Pakistani military officers and defense analysts who have argued that Indian-made defense systems are superior to their Chinese counterparts in terms of quality.

As for the claim that Indian-made systems are superior in quality to Chinese-made systems, I mostly hear that argument from Indian commentators. I rarely hear the same claim from China or from analysts in other countries. In fact, I can point to statements by some retired Pakistani military officers and defense analysts who have argued that Chinese-made defense systems are superior to their Indian counterparts in terms of quality.

 

[Gloire_bb]

I don't know all the current procurement orders of the Indian Air Force, but six indigenous Netra AWACS, 183 Tejas Mk1A fighter aircraft, and hundreds of Astra-series beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missiles are on order. The Super Sukhoi upgrade program, under which the Su-30MKI fleet will receive indigenous avionics, is also underway. There were also plans to equip the Rafale with the indigenous Uttam AESA radar, but the proposal was shelved because the integration cost quoted by Dassault was considered too high.

All is "underway". Which means, right now IAF doesn't even have a common datalink, and tbh it's still not obvious when/if they'll ever get one, given how Dassault behaves.

Common communication interface is a relatively low bar, yet here we are. Rest of hopes abt a well integrated force after that point are unrealistic.