2026 Iran War Strategy and Analysis

Puss in Boots

Junior Member
Registered Member
I do not believe the concept of American Dream exists anymore, and I am very much envisioning a scenario where America undergoes social upheaval - but you are absolutely mistaken to suggest America hasn't experienced that. (Civil Rights movement, Civil War, BLM in 2020)

Do keep in mind that it took decades for the British Empire to truly sunset even after it was clear it was done. But guess what, talk to the British today and they still think they matter!
You haven't witnessed a true revolution. The peasant uprisings in late Qing Dynasty China alone resulted in over ten million deaths. Throughout Chinese history, numerous large and small uprisings occurred at the end of their reigns, causing social upheavals you can't even imagine.
The American political movements you mentioned are nothing more than a mob. In my memory, only the Black Panther Party in the US could barely be considered a rudimentary revolution.
Movements that spend all their time marching and engaging in parliamentary struggles are nothing more than staged revolutions.
 

Puss in Boots

Junior Member
Registered Member
Not gonna lie, I don't think your analogy lands. The US is in a lose-lose situation and China has relatively little to lose in comparison.

Again, China's posture has not shifted. It has escorted merchant shipping in the Horn of Africa region since 2008. This is a legitimate mission with multinational support. The US devolving to piracy is the destabilizing factor.
How can you interpret China's development as "having nothing" when it's doing so well? The one that truly has "nothing" right now is the United States.
Are fighting piracy and fighting "world hegemony" the same thing? While we call the US a pirate here, would most countries in the world dare to call them that? There's another guy in NATO who calls Trump "Dad" all the time! If Trump says tomorrow that we should unite against Russia, you'll find the world's media instantly proclaiming Trump as the true savior.
 

GZDRefugee

Senior Member
Registered Member
How can you interpret China's development as "having nothing" when it's doing so well? The one that truly has "nothing" right now is the United States.
Are fighting piracy and fighting "world hegemony" the same thing? While we call the US a pirate here, would most countries in the world dare to call them that? There's another guy in NATO who calls Trump "Dad" all the time! If Trump says tomorrow that we should unite against Russia, you'll find the world's media instantly proclaiming Trump as the true savior.
Losing a single naval flotilla is a minor inconvenience for China. And you are wrong about the US having nothing to lose. They have everything to lose up to and including hegemony. A single naval flotilla for multipolarity is a highly favorable trade for China.

Everyone is getting hit hard by the oil shock. You decide if their material interests are more important than committing economic suicide for the US and Israel.
 

Puss in Boots

Junior Member
Registered Member
Losing a single naval flotilla is a minor inconvenience for China. And you are wrong about the US having nothing to lose. They have everything to lose up to and including hegemony. A single naval flotilla for multipolarity is a highly favorable trade for China.

Everyone is getting hit hard by the oil shock. You decide if their material interests are more important than committing economic suicide for the US and Israel.
Given the choice between someone with limitless potential and someone whose future is already predictable, who would be more willing to take the gamble?
Why would China sacrifice a fleet? What is the significance of such sacrifices? What additional benefits would this bring to China? China pursues an equal world order; it does not aspire to compete with the United States for global hegemony. Therefore, China has no obligation to initiate a life-or-death struggle with the US.
Those who hope China will take such a huge risk for a multipolar world should abandon that idea as soon as possible.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I think the real question is what other options did China had back in 1950 and what impact an American occupied Korea had on Chinese security, vs what options China has today and how much impact ME oil shock has on China. Fact of the matter is the impact on China right now is simply not high enough and availability of other option not scarce enough for it to be worthwhile to go to war with America, at least not yet.

For starters the entire world is starving of oil, so with privileged access to Russian energy, land corridor to Iran, and dominance of both EVs and renewable, this is more an opportunity for China to further its dominance of global energy. The profit from EV and renewable export can also be used to out bid every drop of non-ME oil to drive countries like Japan, Korea and Europe out of the game altogether.

Majority of ME oil that China imports come from GCC countries and physical destruction of energy infrastructure already fundamentally changed the calculus, the impact of an American sea-born blockade on Iran ontop doesn't materially change much. But even if China cares enough about the America portion, there is an extremely long list of things China can blocade America from accessing to force their hand.

I mean let's not forget Chinese export in 2025 was $3.77 trillion and China's export to the US in 2025 was $400B, while total revenue from OPEC+US oil export was only $650B. China's trade surplus alone was 2x OPEC+US oil revenue. Just the amount of pain China can apply to America just by blockading industrial goods at Chinese ports can do far more damage than sinking a few ships, if you add Taiwan to the list it can easily become apocalyptic for America without China firing a single shot.

And even if you were to decide to go to war, it would tactically still be much better to blockade American access to industral good for 6 month first.

No one is saying China should go to war, at least not unless the US starts it (which they won't). I'm saying China needs a military presence in the area as a response to the US announcing a blockade. Too many people seem to have this weird notion in their heads that if China sends a military presence near the Americans, there's going to be war.
 

Puss in Boots

Junior Member
Registered Member
No one is saying China should go to war, at least not unless the US starts it (which they won't). I'm saying China needs a military presence in the area as a response to the US announcing a blockade. Too many people seem to have this weird notion in their heads that if China sends a military presence near the Americans, there's going to be war.
Always prepare for the worst-case scenario, instead of assuming the situation won't escalate. That's normal human thinking.

Constantly assuming the other party will be as rational as you are is a recipe for disaster!
 

Eventine

Senior Member
Registered Member
The only credible long-term deterrence to any country is threats to its homeland. That is something no US opponent has been able to do conventionally since at least the War of 1812. Nobody could even bomb the US during World War 2, making an invasion of the US homeland unthinkable. The Soviets were able to do it but only via nuclear weapons, and that's why the Cold War endured for as long as it did without a hot conflict, but it didn't stop proxy conflicts between the US and the USSR all over the world.

But China vs. the US today isn't like the US vs. the USSR in decades past. The USSR had more than a handful of allies/proxies through which it could play chess with the US. China by contrast has very few. US power projection during the Cold War was also a fraction of what it is today. It certainly couldn't "contain" the USSR by establishing a blockade on the other side of the world.

Any conflict between the US and China today is, as such, much more likely to do damage to the Chinese homeland than the American homeland. The US has plenty of bases and proxies in East Asia from which it could deal credible damage to Chinese military & industrial infrastructure. China, on the other hand, has very few ways to hit US military & industrial infrastructure. The only option is to escalate to nuclear exchange but that doesn't really favor China as China stands to lose much more than the US (more people, denser population centers, less places for elites to run).

To address this disparity, China would need a way to conventionally strike the US homeland and not with ICMBs, HGVs, etc. which are expensive and the former also vulnerable to ABMs. What it really needs as such are regional (air) bases and allies in the American continent, which is precisely what the US is most afraid of - hence why Trump moved so quickly to depose Maduro and threatens to do Cuba next. The Monroe Doctrine and the general incompetence of South American countries (facilitated by the Monroe Doctrine and centuries of US intervention) make this very difficult to do in peace time and I think it will prove to be impossible before the US is already defeated.

That leaves just one course of action - defeating the US navy. Without a navy, the US is vulnerable, as its foreign bases (and allies) rely on US fleets to provide for their defense, and the US has few options to resupply them otherwise, because it has no land routes to Eurasia. Hence you could think of degrading the US navy as almost as bad as threatening its homeland because losing the navy means losing all the buffers the US has built up to deter homeland strikes. And once the US navy is defeated, the options for striking the US homeland actually become wide open, be it via Alaska, Mexico, Canada, South America, or wherever, none of them would be able to put up a fight without the US navy. It wouldn't surprise me if the US starts threatening MAD as soon as it loses its navy, similar to what other countries would do if their homelands were in danger.

Bringing all this back to the present situation in the world where the US is bringing its considerable military power to extract concessions from the rest of the world - China's greatest deterrence against the US in any conflict is the ability to knock out its fleets (including submarines). It takes a long time for the US to rebuild those fleets, especially in its current industrial shape, and in the mean time it will start losing its regional bases. However, to truly capitalize on this you'd need to take out the US fleet without losing your own fleet and/or most of your military & industrial infrastructure. That requires overwhelming conventional power, which is one reason China is investing so much in "carrier killers." Only through asymmetry can you credibly deter the US from intervening in regional theaters. The calculus really becomes "how many carriers is the US willing to lose before it decides it's not worth it?"
 

GZDRefugee

Senior Member
Registered Member
Given the choice between someone with limitless potential and someone whose future is already predictable, who would be more willing to take the gamble?
Why would China sacrifice a fleet? What is the significance of such sacrifices? What additional benefits would this bring to China? China pursues an equal world order; it does not aspire to compete with the United States for global hegemony. Therefore, China has no obligation to initiate a life-or-death struggle with the US.
Those who hope China will take such a huge risk for a multipolar world should abandon that idea as soon as possible.
This tells me everything I need to know about you. You fundamentally do not understand even basic economic analysis. Under prospect theory (Kahneman & Tversky), China is HIGHLY motivated to take risks as the gains-seeker in this situation. Unlimited potential is by definition GAINS TO BE REALIZED.

Enough of this tripe. It's clear you have no clue what you are talking about and are not open to adjusting your assumptions.
 
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