09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[tphuang]

Yes, I meant are there. Getting too old here. Pardon my goofs.

but thanks for pointing out the French subs.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

There are of course various permutations of this depending on the type of prime mover that is connected to the genset, and the propulsion motor/shaft itself may be combined with a direct prime mover that's mechanically connected to the shaft.

To complicate matters further, there are arrangements where there's essentially a clutch on the propulsor that switches between the main shaft for high speed transit and a small electric motor to creep.

The French have the Suffren class SSN, but there's also the Triomphant class SSBN before it which are nuclear turbo electric.

I became more convinced that the 09V has a turboelectric system when I learned this. This is a proven technology, and I find it hard to believe that China didn't figure it out - especially with all the synergistic technologies from NEVs like high power batteries and permanent magnet motors - while France did.

 

[Blitzo]

To complicate matters further, there are arrangements where there's essentially a clutch on the propulsor that switches between the main shaft for high speed transit and a small electric motor to creep.

Yes, though those I think are not considered turbo electric or IEPS.

I became more convinced that the 09V has a turboelectric system when I learned this. This is a proven technology, and I find it hard to believe that China didn't figure it out - especially with all the synergistic technologies from NEVs like high power batteries and permanent magnet motors - while France did.

Well that is one of the indicators that would suggest 09V *may* have turbo electric, alongside some of the past contracts for electric motors in a class that might be viable for 09V as well, and Adm Ma's past statement in the 2010s in that TV interview.

Something that would add a bit more weight is a statement from the usual suspects in the grapevine, but even then we'd probably still have to accept it is a "possible" rather than "definitive".

 

[AndrewS]

To complicate matters further, there are arrangements where there's essentially a clutch on the propulsor that switches between the main shaft for high speed transit and a small electric motor to creep.

I became more convinced that the 09V has a turboelectric system when I learned this. This is a proven technology, and I find it hard to believe that China didn't figure it out - especially with all the synergistic technologies from NEVs like high power batteries and permanent magnet motors - while France did.

Also remember that SSKs (such as the Yuan-class) already use electric motors.

But the electric motors are smaller than on a turboelectric SSN.

 

[Totoro]

On the issue of the Triomphant class having an electric drive - what proper source suggest that? Googling didn't get me anywhere. Just random, not really credible websites, like the infamous naval-technology.com, mention it. But nothing even remotely like primary sources or people verified to be within the program mention it. Can someone help and actually show what I missed?

 

[Red tsunami]

Yes, though those I think are not considered turbo electric or IEPS.




Well that is one of the indicators that would suggest 09V *may* have turbo electric, alongside some of the past contracts for electric motors in a class that might be viable for 09V as well, and Adm Ma's past statement in the 2010s in that TV interview.

Something that would add a bit more weight is a statement from the usual suspects in the grapevine, but even then we'd probably still have to accept it is a "possible" rather than "definitive".

And this

Excerpts from a tender document on the hardware and software simulation systems of the entire electric propulsion system for TWO models of nuclear-powered submarines, with the designated supplier being the 719th Research Institute.

According to the original poster on Bilibili (@星依樱未), this tender is meant for the 093B and 095 SSNs. However, I think 095 SSN and 096 SSBN are likelier.

View attachment 168973

 

[Broccoli]

According to Americans PLAN is pivoting towards nuclear powered submarines.

The ONI chief revealed the U.S. estimates up to half of the projected 80 attack boat fleet People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) will be nuclear-powered by 2035, marking a “significant strategic shift” from China’s previous prioritization of diesel-electric construction. By 2040, the PLAN could have between 20-30 new nuclear-powered cruise and submarine-launched ballistic missile boats in service, according to Brookes.

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[ZeEa5KPul]

By 2040, the PLAN could have between 20-30 new nuclear-powered cruise and submarine-launched ballistic missile boats in service, according to Brookes.

These people think China's going to launch a maximum of two submarines a year from now until 2040 (that's not including the 09IIIBs already launched, which can certainly be considered new)? Why, do they think China is America?

“By 2040, the PLA Navy’s undersea forces may credibly challenge U.S. regional maritime dominance, complicating crisis response, power projection and allied defense,”

If by "regional" you mean everywhere on the planet, sure. I can't wait to see the shock on their faces when they finally understand that 09Vs are lurking off the coast of New York.

 

[Tomboy]

If by "regional" you mean everywhere on the planet, sure. I can't wait to see the shock on their faces when they finally understand that 09Vs are lurking off the coast of New York.

Without foreign basing, far out deployments are unlikely to be high in tempo due to logistics and hence unlikely to be able to challenge the USN globally. Unless PLA decides to establish more support bases around the globe in the next 15 years. Numerical and even technological superiority only goes as far as you can adequately support these assets.

 

[charles18]

These people think China's going to launch a maximum of two submarines a year from now until 2040 (that's not including the 09IIIBs already launched, which can certainly be considered new)? Why, do they think China is America?

I remember about 6 or 7 years ago China was literally building large surface combatants at 4x times the rate of the USA. China was building (2 cruisers, 4 destroyers, 2 frigates) per year compared to the US navy's 2 destroyers. Today, the construction pace for surface combatants has slowed down understandably. Even with the current lower construction tempo the PLA navy, by year 2030, will have the largest surface combatant force in the world.

Resources are now being diverted into submarines. Assuming the USA can sustain an average of 1.5 subs per year I can see China soon building subs at 4x times the rate or 6 subs per year. In the next few years I expect Chinese submarines to get a lot of attention similar to how surface combatants used to receive a decade ago.