Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)

[Tomboy]

Or they could use the YJ-18 to bridge the effective strike range gap between torpedoes and YJ-19.

They mentioned that YJ-18 is unsuitable for closer ranged combat due to it being a two staged missile and hence also having a minimum strike range.

 

[Maikeru]

Actually a HWT is way more destructive than any AShM (talking conventional warheads here) and so presumably would be first choice for any sub skipper worth his salt.

 

[Tomboy]

Also, I wonder if J-36 would be able to carry a strike payload of air launched YJ-19s. The main bay is definitely large enough and YJ-19 should be slim enough to fit as well.

 

[ismellcopium]

Shilao and co has just uploaded a 2 hour long paid podcast about the new hypersonic weapons, I'm still going through that stream.

They immediately said indeed YJ-19 is specifically a scramjet engine powered air breathing HCM for 533mm torpedo tubes, and it was very difficult to develop, much more difficult than air launched HCM.

They said difficult though it was PLAN was very adamant on having air breathing HCM because it offers a very wide usable range band which the navy desires. Unpowered HGV can achieve great range yes but is not nearly as flexible in use in comparison.

They said the navy's thoughts on YJ-18 is it's hard enough for a submarine to find a surface target 500km away, it's even harder to maintain that kill chain for the whole duration of YJ-18's flight as it's cruise stage waddles slowly at subsonic speed towards the target. YJ-19 goes a long way to solve that problem.

Speed and flexibility aside they also said YJ-19 has more range than YJ-18, but there is one drawback in that it's warhead is a lot smaller and against very robust targets like CVN it may struggle.

How does hypersonic speed mated with small warhead compare to slower larger warhead? I would think waterline aimpoint + higher speed may still be similarly devastating if not possibly even more so due to the higher depth it might penetrate vs a detonation on contact.

 

[latenlazy]

How does hypersonic speed mated with small warhead compare to slower larger warhead? I would think waterline aimpoint + higher speed may still be similarly devastating if not possibly even more so due to the higher depth it might penetrate vs a detonation on contact.

If it can mission kill destroyers it should be more than adequate.

 

[TheWanderWit]

The PLAAF does deploy large air-launched HGVs of their own, as seen on at least one H-6Ns years ago.

Meanwhile, the PLAN deploys the YJ-17 (alongside the YJ-19 and YJ-20 as their top-tier AShMs), which can be fitted inside the strike-length UVLS cells of PLAN DDGs (and maybe CGs in the future).

Of course, this doesn't discredit the possibility (or options) of the H-6K/J/Ns being able to carry YJ-17s. In fact, due to the smaller sizes of the YJ-17 compared to the larger HGV missile seen previously (of which each H-6N can only carry one underneath the belly), the H-6K/J/Ns could actually carry two of them per plane (if not more) underneath their wings.

Yea at the time when I looked at the image, it seemed that the HGV might be a bit wide and the booster seemed large, but I saw measurements on here from somewhere else and they can fit into the UVLS cells just fine. I guess it was just perspective. In terms of the air-launched HGV, what I really meant was like a slightly smaller version like you just said, in which an H-6 can carry 2-4 on its pylons, compared to just one large booster with the HGV underneath its body, which most people seemed to think was primarily for a nuclear-role rather than conventional, but I assume that large booster could do both.

Even without the 095 SSNs, the 093B SSNs with individual strike-length UVLS cells that are similar to those on their surface combatant counterparts should be able to field them as well.

I originally held that thought, considering the 093Bs can launch YJ-18s from their VLS tubes, and the YJ-18 fits in the largest and deep cell on Chinese DDGs which is of the 9m length, but I wasn't exactly sure and was being conservative, but I guess that it can. That's a big capability boost to the 093Bs.

 

[doggydogdo]

Also, I wonder if J-36 would be able to carry a strike payload of air launched YJ-19s. The main bay is definitely large enough and YJ-19 should be slim enough to fit as well.

What's the point of putting it in a J-36? you can put it on a bomber for much cheaper with the same results

 

[Tomboy]

What's the point of putting it in a J-36? you can put it on a bomber for much cheaper with the same results

On what bomber? The H-20? That's surely more expensive than J-36, H-6 isn't stealthy and with the relatively short range of this missile would not be suitable.

 

[TheWanderWit]

Shilao and co has just uploaded a 2 hour long paid podcast about the new hypersonic weapons, I'm still going through that stream.

They immediately said indeed YJ-19 is specifically a scramjet engine powered air breathing HCM for 533mm torpedo tubes, and it was very difficult to develop, much more difficult than air launched HCM.

They said difficult though it was PLAN was very adamant on having air breathing HCM because it offers a very wide usable range band which the navy desires. Unpowered HGV can achieve great range yes but is not nearly as flexible in use in comparison.

They said the navy's thoughts on YJ-18 is it's hard enough for a submarine to find a surface target 500km away, it's even harder to maintain that kill chain for the whole duration of YJ-18's flight as it's cruise stage waddles slowly at subsonic speed towards the target. YJ-19 goes a long way to solve that problem.

Speed and flexibility aside they also said YJ-19 has more range than YJ-18, but there is one drawback in that it's warhead is a lot smaller and against very robust targets like CVN it may struggle.

So the YJ-19 is only torpedo launched and not VLS-launched? Or is it similar to the YJ-18 where its both VLS-launched and capable of being launched for torpedo tubes?

 

[Maikeru]

So the YJ-19 is only torpedo launched and not VLS-launched? Or is it similar to the YJ-18 where its both VLS-launched and capable of being launched for torpedo tubes?

If it can fit a standard 21 inch torpedo tube presumably it can go in the frigate VLS? 650mm cells IIRC.