PLA Navy news, pics and videos

[lcloo]

Okay, I found out exactly where I went so wrong with my last human-for-scale composite, and it was not math, just lazyness/sloppiness/giddyness on my part because I had an idea and wanted to get it out to the world before I went to sleep.

First, let me provide my source for the vessel dimensions, a French site called Naval News (

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).

Because I was reading the article with the specific intention of finding "ramp width" locked firmly in mind, when my eyes scanned over the vessel's estimated width of 35 meters, I just ran with it as the ramp width and started crunching numbers without even considering how rediculous my conclusions were.

I mean, truly, it's like I was making a photoshop for a car commercial and I put a happy family standing in front of the car where the people are the size of toy action figures. That was very sloppy and I feel so ashamed.

The article estimated 35 meters wide for the vessel, and the pictures clearly show that the ramp itself is a fraction of that.

Anyway, I did some new calculations last night (for as much as you can trust them), double checked my own work again after a good night's rest, and am now confident this new picture is more accurate.

View attachment 156862

Here is my process:
Step 1: Ramp scale

• I took a photo of one of the vessels from Twitter which, in the referenced Naval News article is described as being 35 meters wide. Using an image scale measuring app, I measured the vessel between two large beams to make sure my measurement was straight, and took that unit as "1".
• My next measurement is of the inner width of what I can see of the ramp in its elevated position, which came out as "0.2" after several attempts.
• Some simple math shows 35x0.2=7, or seven meters.

Step 2: Ramp foot scale

• I then used the same app to measure photo of the ramp in its lowered position on the beach, where I first measured the inner width of the ramp as "1" and then measured the ramp foot, which repeatedly came out to "0.05."
• The same math, 7x0.05=35, or 35 centimeters. So the ramp foot from botton to first beveled edge is 35 centimeters in height.
• I overlaid a grid on that photo, making sure the grid squares aligned with the ramp foot bottom to its first beveled edge, so each square can be assumed to be 35 centimeters in height.

Step 3: Human scale

• Since 175 centimeters is a reasonably common height for a man in northern China, 175/35=5, so exactly five grid squares then.
• After making sure my model (I have named him 高富帅) was the right size, I just moved him to look like he's standing in front of the foot instead of inside of it, and there you have it.

View attachment 156861
This is obviously not 100% accurate, as at any stage in the process perspective and depth in the 3D environment can cause distortions when I used a 2D scale measuring tool, and if one measurement is off from one image, or if any of the initial assumptions are wrong, such as the actual total vessel width, then everything else will be wrong too.

Feel free to make fun of me for this!

It is around the width of a normal 2 lane motor way.

 

[Wrought]

Conventional armor fell out of fashion decades ago for very good reasons, but I wonder if it makes sense for these ships. You don't have a bunch of radars, FCS, or sundry sensitive electronics all over the hull. Most of the bridge functionality is purely mechanical. And range is not an issue since you're on a one-way mission to a close target.

Really, what's the downside of adding a bunch of extra steel? I guess draft is a consideration since they need to get close to shore.

 

[lcloo]

The optimal time for deploying these bridging barges is after securing air and sea dominance and after expanded the gained ground so that enemy's effective fire range is unable to reach these barges, and PLA have deployed multi-layer mid and short range air defenses on land to defend these barges.

Also, after the AR or in the final phases of AR, if the major sea ports on Taiwan are heavily damaged, these bridgig barges would be very useful to land supplies needed.

One thing I do not see is that these bridging barges deploy during the initial beach assault phases since they are too big a target and vulnerable. LCAC, Jubr and other are better options.

 

[Wrought]

The optimal time for deploying these bridging barges is after securing air and sea dominance and after expanded the gained ground so that enemy's effective fire range is unable to reach these barges, and PLA have deployed multi-layer mid and short range air defenses on land to defend these barges.

Also, after the AR or in the final phases of AR, if the major sea ports on Taiwan are heavily damaged, these bridgig barges would be very useful to land supplies needed.

One thing I do not see is that these bridging barges deploy during the initial beach assault phases since they are too big a target and vulnerable. LCAC, Jubr and other are better options.

Certainly, but adding armor provides redundancy against the risk of damage. Obviously it would be ideal if these ships were never even targeted, or if all attacks were intercepted perfectly, but wartime contingencies are rarely ideal.

And what is the downside to adding armor? For real warships there are many tradeoffs as I already mentioned. But most of them do not apply to this particular use case. Steel is cheap and air is free, after all.

 

[vincent]

Certainly, but adding armor provides redundancy against the risk of damage. Obviously it would be ideal if these ships were never even targeted, or if all attacks were intercepted perfectly, but wartime contingencies are rarely ideal.

And what is the downside to adding armor? For real warships there are many tradeoffs as I already mentioned. But most of them do not apply to this particular use case. Steel is cheap and air is free, after all.

You answered your own question. Draft

 

[Wrought]

You answered your own question. Draft

Draft is a constraint on how much armor you can add, not a blocker on adding any.

 

[jnd85]

It is around the width of a normal 2 lane motor way.

View attachment 156896

So the estimation of 7 meters meshes perfectly with the standard outlined on Wikipedia for a dual carriageway. It is practically a textbook design.

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[Heresy]

Draft is a constraint on how much armor you can add, not a blocker on adding any.

Could you add enough armor everywhere to prevent this thing from being mission-killed by a modern subsonic Anti-Ship missile?
Who care if you can add armor if you can't add "enough" armor?

 

[gk1713]

Certainly, but adding armor provides redundancy against the risk of damage. Obviously it would be ideal if these ships were never even targeted, or if all attacks were intercepted perfectly, but wartime contingencies are rarely ideal.

And what is the downside to adding armor? For real warships there are many tradeoffs as I already mentioned. But most of them do not apply to this particular use case. Steel is cheap and air is free, after all.

This discussion sounds like happening in Admiralty or Seekriegsleitung 100 years ago ...

 

[another505]

Conventional armor fell out of fashion decades ago for very good reasons, but I wonder if it makes sense for these ships. You don't have a bunch of radars, FCS, or sundry sensitive electronics all over the hull. Most of the bridge functionality is purely mechanical. And range is not an issue since you're on a one-way mission to a close target.

Really, what's the downside of adding a bunch of extra steel? I guess draft is a consideration since they need to get close to shore.

Cost of production and duration of production will rise, and it will decrease speed to get to the LZ.
Adding armor will not help against an anti ship or even anti tank missile. It's also useless against artillery barrage since shrapnel doesn't work when hitting water and a direct hit is going to hurt regardless because it is such a big ship that you have to add a LOT of armor to make it practical useful.


Might as well just make more of these.

What they can add is some passive defense like laser dazzler or drone jammer but I suppose that PLAN is going to relegate that duty to other hardwares as it beaches.