AUKUS News, Views, Analysis.

Lethe

Captain
That happened to the Canadian opposition leader, but he just found some schmuck from his party who won a large majority vote in his district, had the guy resign, and is now running to take his seat. I expect Dutton will do something similar.

Even if Dutton hadn't lost his own seat, it's likely that he would've stepped down or been removed as opposition leader as part of the post-election review process. This wasn't an "honourable loss", but a crushing defeat from what had appeared to be a winnable position, with the reasons for that defeat falling mostly within the purview of the leadership. So I don't think there would be much appetite in the party for the kind of political maneuvering required to save Dutton in this case. He's an
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, the real question is where the broader Liberal party goes to from here.

There was an anti-Trump effect in this election, but not nearly to the same degree as in Canada. After all, Trump hasn't threatened to annex Australia -- yet. For a few months, local right-wing media and political figures were riding high on the Trumpian wave and proposing similar ideas such an Australian
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. As public attitudes here towards Trump soured, the Coalition increasingly tried to bury its previous enthusiasm for him, like a dog trying to run away from the smell of its own farts, but their identification with him kept
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at awkward moments.
 
Last edited:

tygyg1111

Captain
Registered Member
The Labor government under Anthony Albanese has been returned to serve another term, with an increased majority. Until recently, polling had suggested that a Coalition (i.e. Liberal + National) victory was in play, which would've elevated Peter Dutton to the office of Prime Minister. Instead, not only has his party lost the election, but Dutton has lost his own seat in Parliament, bringing an end to his role as opposition leader and likely any formal role in Australian political life.

..............

Dutton has now finally sat down.
In what seat?
 

bjj_starter

New Member
Registered Member
Even if Dutton hadn't lost his own seat, it's likely that he would've stepped down or been removed as opposition leader as part of the post-election review process. This wasn't an "honourable loss", but a crushing defeat from what had appeared to be a winnable position, with the reasons for that defeat falling mostly within the purview of the leadership. So I don't think there would be much appetite in the party for the kind of political maneuvering required to save Dutton in this case. He's an
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, the real question is where the broader Liberal party goes to from here.

There was an anti-Trump effect in this election, but not nearly to the same degree as in Canada. After all, Trump hasn't threatened to annex Australia -- yet. For a few months, local right-wing media and political figures were riding high on the Trumpian wave and proposing similar ideas such an Australian
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. As public attitudes here towards Trump soured, the Coalition increasingly tried to bury its previous enthusiasm for him, like a dog trying to run away from the smell of its own farts, but their identification with him kept
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
at awkward moments.

Hello Lethe, over from the Ask Anything Thread! I am also a white Australian so I'm not sure about that part of the post, but in terms of the "Big Questions" you raised, I really really hope AUKUS gets cancelled & I think there's at least a moderate possibility of that happening.

I strongly doubt AUKUS included any ROK like language around US military command of submarines in the event of war, although I think both sides who made the deal de facto expected something like that. If such language were revealed, it would make AUKUS insanely unpopular in Australia. One possible read of Albo's current plan is that he might be trying to get the US to cancel/non-perform AUKUS. If he asserts Australian sovereignty over the Australian military (…assuming the American officers who recently joined our military don't make that an issue) & says "No, those submarines won't be used in a war over Taiwan, they'll only be used to protect the Australian national interest, which does not include either Taiwan or a US-China war", to me it's absolutely unthinkable that the US would ever actually give us the Virginia subs. Think about it, if there's any chance that those subs won't be available to the US in the important war, then giving those subs to Australia is effectively sinking them straight after they're made, from the US perspective. Given the US's issues with shipbuilding & meeting their own requirements, the AUKUS deal only makes sense for the US if the US can guarantee that it can use those subs regardless of their nominal ownership. If Albo credibly threatens that, the US would have to cancel the deal with no subs delivered and Australia only having paid $500Mn to $3Bn (if it gets cancelled soon). Albo's jabs at Trump & friendliness with China could be deliberately trying to push Trump to make the cancellation out of anger, while the assertion of sovereignty & national interest gives Colby cold feet - who would be left to advocate for AUKUS, something Biden very publicly claimed credit for?

Now that said, there's a giant hole in this theory, which is: where on Earth would we get our replacements for the nearly-expired Collins-class submarines? I personally think this isn't that big of an issue with this theory because non-performance of AUKUS by the US was always more likely than not. However, there is still a military (and domestic political) problem with not having subs. Japan? Go begging back to the French? Some sort of CANZUK decades long abomination? I don't know. I personally think "Nothing, no subs" is better than spending $350Bn on subs that won't get delivered to us & come with a commitment to being on the losing side of the largest conflict since WW2, but I understand that's not a great position electorally.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Hello Lethe, over from the Ask Anything Thread! I am also a white Australian so I'm not sure about that part of the post, but in terms of the "Big Questions" you raised, I really really hope AUKUS gets cancelled & I think there's at least a moderate possibility of that happening.

I strongly doubt AUKUS included any ROK like language around US military command of submarines in the event of war, although I think both sides who made the deal de facto expected something like that. If such language were revealed, it would make AUKUS insanely unpopular in Australia. One possible read of Albo's current plan is that he might be trying to get the US to cancel/non-perform AUKUS. If he asserts Australian sovereignty over the Australian military (…assuming the American officers who recently joined our military don't make that an issue) & says "No, those submarines won't be used in a war over Taiwan, they'll only be used to protect the Australian national interest, which does not include either Taiwan or a US-China war", to me it's absolutely unthinkable that the US would ever actually give us the Virginia subs. Think about it, if there's any chance that those subs won't be available to the US in the important war, then giving those subs to Australia is effectively sinking them straight after they're made, from the US perspective. Given the US's issues with shipbuilding & meeting their own requirements, the AUKUS deal only makes sense for the US if the US can guarantee that it can use those subs regardless of their nominal ownership. If Albo credibly threatens that, the US would have to cancel the deal with no subs delivered and Australia only having paid $500Mn to $3Bn (if it gets cancelled soon). Albo's jabs at Trump & friendliness with China could be deliberately trying to push Trump to make the cancellation out of anger, while the assertion of sovereignty & national interest gives Colby cold feet - who would be left to advocate for AUKUS, something Biden very publicly claimed credit for?

Now that said, there's a giant hole in this theory, which is: where on Earth would we get our replacements for the nearly-expired Collins-class submarines? I personally think this isn't that big of an issue with this theory because non-performance of AUKUS by the US was always more likely than not. However, there is still a military (and domestic political) problem with not having subs. Japan? Go begging back to the French? Some sort of CANZUK decades long abomination? I don't know. I personally think "Nothing, no subs" is better than spending $350Bn on subs that won't get delivered to us & come with a commitment to being on the losing side of the largest conflict since WW2, but I understand that's not a great position electorally.
Just go back to France like it was meant to be.
 
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