PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
"the devil is in the details." -
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


if its so easy to use highways as runways why are billions spent on airports and airbases? where are your details bro?
What details? Who said it was easy? Desperate times call for desperate measures, and running fighters off highways would definitely be a desperate measure; you make do with what you have. BTW, "billions" being spent on airbases doesn't mean billions were spent on the runways themselves.
 

bsdnf

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's called lack of sufficient munitions, tough guy. I suppose you think China as a manufacturing superpower could just produce as many bombs and missiles as it wants to whenever it wants to, kind of like a magic wand that automatically ensures victory in any scenario. In real life, it's also a matter of keeping them suppressed even after they are damaged, because as soon as you leave they will start repairing the roadway.

There is also the issue of intelligence; you can at most guess where ROCAF is most likely to use certain highways for this purpose, but you won't know until the fit hits the shan and you see them in one place or another with their fighters.


Really? Who says ROCAF would have to do all (or any) of that every with road in Taiwan? You're just adding things in to make it sound as difficult as as possible. Resurface with high-grade cement and asphalt? Come on man, you're just a little off from "studding the road with diamonds" at this point. If there are no potholes, a highway does not need resurfacing for a fighter to use it. These highways already are routinely used by large rigs weighing 30-40 tons at a time, multiple times a day. Why in the world would they need "resurfacing"?
PRC is not a party to the Convention on Cluster Munitions, that's it

I have done talking with you and would like to greet the ROCAF engineers try to repair the runway in the future. Let's pray the unexploded submunitions on the runway are truly unexploded and not randomly delayed. Let's pray the PLA MLRS doesn't launch a high speed drone for damage assessment, if it does, then pray the AA missiles will shoot it down. Pray the PLA's other reconnaissance means will turn a blind eye, and pray the satellites won't take pictures. Or just pray the MLRS doesn't have ammo for another round, if it does, at least don't fire it while they're repairing. Of course, the most important thing is to pray that the Rocket Force has no ammunition
 
Last edited:

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
PRC is not a party to the Convention on Cluster Munitions, that's it

I have done talking with you and would like to greet the ROCAF engineers try to repair the runway in the future. Let's pray the unexploded submunitions on the runwar are truly unexploded and not randomly delayed.
Right, because somehow ROCAF engineers are primitive and have no way to clear live munitions off their military runways.
 

Wrought

Junior Member
Registered Member
Without knowing roughly their flight profiles, these can hardly be compared to genuine ballistic missiles with manuevering warheads. Given Yemen and Iran's rather low tech level, presuming they can make an Iskander let alone DF-21D equivalent is making very heavy assumptions.

With most certainty, these Yemeni missiles are just the equivalent of launching ATACMS/Himars at seaborne targets, something the Philippines also attempted to demonstrate (but failed due to likely operator error).

While quasi ballistic missiles present a higher challenge than normal cruise missiles, their interception rate in Ukraine (atacms, tornado, himars) has still been quite high. While a true tactical ballistic missile like Iskander has afaik never even been documented as directly defeated. Only "missed" or "survived".

It's the ability of df-16/iskander/df-26 etc to maneuver in erratic trajectories as they near the target which makes them unique. There's afaik no indication Iran would have such sophisticated tech.

Just a quick note, HIMARS itself is the launcher which fires ATACMS munitions (and PrSM, and GMLRS).
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
No, what you're looking for is SAM launchers and fighters. Which means that a sparsely populated country makes it MUCH easier to find of these things out in the open. Whereas we have already seen recent photos of Taiwanese assets (shamefully) hiding in churches, schools, temples, etc. And for fighters you'll need to look up and down Taiwan's vast highway system to find them.
It means you have a larger space to search through. If they have any desert camou, it makes it much harder. I'd rather search for little things in a dinner plate than a bathtub any day. It also makes it very difficult to take out multiple things with big munitions if they are sparce. Continuous satellite and drone search is much easier on a small space. Fighters don't fly unless the highway is cleared. The clearing of a large stretch of highway is something that is easy to scan for. And to be honest, I don't think it would be hard at all with AI and satellite coverage to constantly look for and immediately flag any jet-shaped and sized objects that are exposed. Taiwan's small size and short distance to the mainland also means that China has continuous SAM coverage of all their airspace in case anything does get into the air.

And something that you haven't rebutted 2 times now is that the close proximity means that they are in range of the PLARF, which has much more firepower than the US can transport overseas.
You'll need to clarify what you mean by "reduced violence to their overall structure". The point of a landing barge is precisely that "any ship" will NOT actually do. If we're talking "any ship", nothing less than taking control of Taiwanese port cities will do, which again are heavily defended and massively increase the chance of invasion failure for the PLA/PLAN.
I'm talking about taking port cities in hours. Heavily defended how? What could they possibly throw out that would survive artillery strikes, then jet strikes, then constant armed-drone/helicopter coverage?
You don't have to chase anything down for a terminal phase-based SAM. It's already coming right at you.
1. I'm thinking the vast majority of an aircraft carrier's defense is in its strike group and only a small amount is there on the aircraft carrier itself. For those to be effective, they need to chase the missile while it's on route to the carrier.
2. Even the carrier itself needs to be quite precise in finding the timing and direction of in incoming missile to intercept it.
3. How many missiles can China afford to trade for each carrier and all the shit that's on it? Can they defend against that many missiles?
1. Sure it does:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
OK thanks. So they can practice too.
2. Except this "game" does not reflect any kind of real world scenario. If a HGV hits, it doesn't mean PLARF wins or the USN loses, and the reverse is not true either. In the real world, the PLARF has a limited complement of missiles.
Naw, man. In this game, if the HGV hits, the carrier loses and sinks. If the carrier wins, it gets to keep moving and the PLARF needs to fire again. Stakes are very very much different. I didn't mean win the whole war with one game.
3. There are multiple wargames out there, with the US or China winning or losing, such as this CSIS simulation:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Hegseth talks about the ones run by the Pentagon. I don't think anyone in the US has more information than the Pentagon so I value their wargames the highest amongst US sources.
I have no doubt they already have been building a stockpile of missiles, and would build far more during wartime. This DOESN'T actually answer the question of whether they will have enough missiles throughout the course of the conflict.
Is China, the building superpower more likely to stockpile enough missiles in its own home country, or is America, the country that constantly complains that it can't make anything anymore likely to ship enough missiles across the world?
What do you mean by "without regard to the preservation of the island"? If you really mean that, I can predict China could win this war in less than 1 hour. Taipei turns into a mushroom cloud, with 1 additional nuke per day on a random large city until Taiwan unconditionally surrenders. Done.
True, true, that would be the most savage ending and phyrric victory. So there is a spectrum between that and the CCP issuing the ROC an ultimatum and having them peacefully capitulate. The point is that China is moving its position in that spectrum farther from the former and closer to the latter but the fact that they didn't attack yet doesn't mean that they somehow don't believe that they can take Taiwan, as you seemed to surmise from their timing of building the barges. It's just a question of where they are on that spectrum.
 

zlixOS

New Member
Registered Member
Mr. zlixOS' opinion piece:

Zhongnanhai's decision to drop 'peaceful reunification' is not indicative of a desire to drop 'peaceful reunification.' ??!!

We must understand that peaceful reunification will always --- always --- be more desirable to any CCP leadership than AR ever will be. Because losing soldiers and money and reputation is worse than not losing soldiers and money and reputation (this is left to the reader to prove).

But, including PR in any document leaves wiggle room; when will the two shores be considered unified? How much trade coercion will be involved, if any? Thus, DPPers may take that as go-ahead to pull publicity stunts and move closer to overt separatism.

==> The dropping of PR is trying to pull the currently popular DPP away from hardline stances.

This means not that the first resort will be PR, nor does it signify that war is coming; rather, it must be seen that any and all words that come from Beijing a) have purpose to them, and b) may be not entirely truthful.

Likewise, we can't naively hope for PR, nor should we unnecessarily steer away from it; we must recognize that all options are always on the table, always, all the time, always indeed.
 

Neurosmith

Junior Member
Registered Member
The ROC continuously tries to make these formal alliances. They are rejected, then try try to settle for lower ranking things like cultural exchange offices. Their failure is not for lack of trying. The fact is that the CCP has made it known that a declaration of independence is war. The Chinese people mirror this feeling, if not, then they desire a more aggressive approach. The official statements don't get clearer than this. Your personal feeling towards this is completely irrelevent. It's as ridiculous as saying that I don't think the US would fight back if Russia/China nuked them because they're just cowards.
If Taiwan undertakes political actions that are exclusive to sovereign states - such as forging formal alliances - without a declaration of independence, China would still react the same way it would if Taiwan had. So we agree that China pays attention to Taiwan's action more so than its words. So the million dollar question is whether or not China would undertake the most complex amphibious operation in military history in response to a mere declaration of independence by Taiwan, even without the requisite political changes.

This is entirely untrue and you recognized that in your last post (#7,247). Most people in Europe, especially Germany, oppose using thier resources to fight Russia. Germany jails these people and gives them politicians to "elect," all of whom want to keep supporting Ukraine. Western nations have absolutely no care what their citizens think; they make their decisions based on what they think they must do (in this case, to please the Biden administration, which has now backfired since Trump came to office). Under no situation would a Western, non-US nation even consider fighting China unless it was obvious that China was faltering and they can win. It matters nothing at all what their citizens want.
Citizens opposing funding for a foreign war brings about a different level of political pressure than do war-hungry citizens of a country that was attacked without warning/provocation. The two are incomparable.

Sure, governments may not always bend to the will of its citizens or intelligentsia, but let's not pretend that a Japan that is voluntarily involved in a Taiwan scenario is going to face the same kind of pressure or exert the same level of military resolve than a Japan that had been pre-emptively attacked by PLAN/PLAAF forces.
 
Top