Same thing happened to Germany. They were making stealth fighter in 80s, independent of F-117, but then, diplomatic pressure led to the cancellation of the program: MBB Lampyridae.
Today German MIL is well...we know.
Same thing happened to Germany. They were making stealth fighter in 80s, independent of F-117, but then, diplomatic pressure led to the cancellation of the program: MBB Lampyridae.
Today German MIL is well...we know.
The absolute state of the natsec and geopol communities in ASPI, if not a growing portion of the Australian defense discourse in-a-nutshell:
"SSKs aren't enough anymore, we must have SSNs to deter Chyna!"
"SSNs alone aren't enough anymore, our SSNs must be comparable/equal to the top-of-the-line American ones to deter Chyna!"
"Top-of-the-line SSNs only aren't enough anymore, now our SSNs must be armed with nuclear-tipped missiles to deter Chyna!"
TBH, by this point, Australia might as well buy second-hand Ohio SSBNs from the US. Saves China the trouble of deliberating on whether Australia is an actual nuclear-armed state or not, when/if the time comes.
In the meantime, please take a look at your own population distribution map, Australia. I'm not sure if you understand the implications of your ultimate survival as a country if you decide to engage in a nuclear war with China.
"SSKs aren't enough anymore, we must have SSNs to deter Chyna!"
"SSNs alone aren't enough anymore, our SSNs must be comparable/equal to the top-of-the-line American ones to deter Chyna!"
"Top-of-the-line SSNs only aren't enough anymore, now our SSNs must be armed with nuclear-tipped missiles to deter Chyna!"
TBH, by this point, Australia might as well buy second-hand Ohio SSBNs from the US. Saves China the trouble of deliberating on whether Australia is an actual nuclear-armed state or not, when/if the time comes.
In the meantime, please take a look at your own population distribution map, Australia. I'm not sure if you understand the implications of your ultimate survival as a country if you decide to engage in a nuclear war with China.
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6 nukes away from off the map. Of which 4 go in 1 state.
Lethe
Captain
I'm not sure that having separate AUKUS and Australia Military threads is particularly useful when AUKUS has little to no meaning beyond Australia, but in any case this is clearly an AUKUS thing:
With the arrival of Trump v2.0, former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull (2015-2018) has now thrown firmly in with former Prime Minister Paul Keating (1991-1996) in opposing AUKUS and the unprecedented level of enmeshment with the United States that it brings.
Former Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser (1975-1983) passed away before AUKUS was born but, as the author of , which warned of the risks of Australia's strategic relationship with the United States, I think we can reasonably assume that he would've opposed it also.
With the arrival of Trump v2.0, former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull (2015-2018) has now thrown firmly in with former Prime Minister Paul Keating (1991-1996) in opposing AUKUS and the unprecedented level of enmeshment with the United States that it brings.
Former Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser (1975-1983) passed away before AUKUS was born but, as the author of , which warned of the risks of Australia's strategic relationship with the United States, I think we can reasonably assume that he would've opposed it also.
My property portfolio...
17 February 2025
The 23rd Australia-China Defence Strategic Dialogue was held today in Beijing, China.
The Vice Chief of the Defence Force, Air Marshal Robert Chipman AO CSC, and Deputy Secretary Strategy, Policy and Industry Group, Hugh Jeffrey, led the Australian delegation. General Xu Qiling, Deputy Chief of the Joint Staff Department, led China’s delegation.
The Dialogue is a senior officials’ meeting between the Department of Defence and China’s People’s Liberation Army. Prime Minister Albanese and Premier Li Qiang agreed to resume the Dialogue during the Annual Leaders’ Meeting in 2024. The Dialogue was last held in 2019.
At today’s Dialogue, both countries exchanged views on bilateral, global and regional security issues, as well as military transparency and communication.
Australia reiterated the importance of all countries in the region operating in a safe and professional manner at all times to avoid the risk of miscalculation or escalation.
Australia underscored the importance of adherence to international law, particularly the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, which provides the comprehensive legal framework for all activities in the oceans and seas.
Australia affirmed the importance of all countries acting in a manner that respects sovereignty and upholds peace, security and stability.
中国和澳大利亚军方进行防务战略磋商，同意妥善处理矛盾和分歧。
据中国国防部官网消息，中国和澳大利亚两军星期一（2月17日）在北京举行第23次防务战略磋商，中共中央军委联合参谋部副参谋长徐起零与澳国防军副司令齐普曼、国防部副秘书长杰弗里共同主持。
双方围绕两国两军关系、地区安全和其他共同关心的问题深入交换了意见，同意继续在防务领域加强战略沟通，妥处矛盾分歧，开展交流合作。
澳洲国防部当天在官网发布新闻稿介绍，时隔六年，澳中军方再次进行防务战略磋商。澳洲总理阿尔巴尼斯和中国总理李强去年6月举行会谈，双方同意恢复两国防务战略磋商。这是澳洲国防部和中国人民解放军高官之间的对话。此对话上次举行是在2019年。
澳中两国在当天的防务战略磋商中，就双边关系、全球和区域保安议题，以及军事透明度和沟通等交换意见。
延伸阅读
澳洲重申该区域的所有国家必须时刻以安全专业的方式行事，以避免误判或是升级风险。澳洲也强调遵守国际法的重要性，尤其是《联合国海洋法公约》，以及所有国家以尊重主权、维护和平、安全与稳定的方式行事的重要性。
澳洲国防部2月13日发声明称，澳空军一架P-8A“海神”反潜巡逻机2月11日在南中国海“例行”侦察巡逻时，中国一架歼-16战机向其靠近，在两机距离30米左右时发射了照明弹。
声明指责这是“一次不安全和不专业的操作，对（澳洲）飞机和人员构成了风险”，澳方已就此事件向中方“表达关切”。
中国外交部发言人郭嘉昆当天回应上述情况时批评，澳洲军机未经中方允许蓄意侵闯中国西沙群岛领空，侵犯中国主权，危害中方国家安全。中方已就此向澳方提出严正交涉，要求澳方停止侵权挑衅，停止破坏南中国海的和平与稳定。
I dedicate this song to the Australian and New Zealand armed forces.
Replying to a post by @Temstar from the "055 Large Destroyer Thread II" here as this appears to be the more applicable forum.
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From the looks of it: 107 Zunyi sailing together with 887 Weishanhu rendezvoused with 568 Hengyang in the Coral Sea on February 13th, and this de facto PLAN surface action group then proceeded to sail together along Australia's eastern coastline until they arrived in the Tasman Sea on or about the 19th, where they conducted live fire exercises.
Not so coincidentally the 23rd China-Australia Defense Strategic Dialogue was also held in Beijing on the 17th: the , while the which included such "charming" verbiage as:
The men running Zhongnanhai are not stupid or purposeless. It is almost certain that this PLAN surface action group was pre-positioned in the Coral Sea by the 13th with the aforementioned meeting in mind.
Evidently, the Central Military Commission came to the conclusion that their Australian counterparts in defense and government "didn't get the message" during the meeting on the 17th.
Therefore, it appears the CMC came to the conclusion that it was necessary for the PLAN to demonstrate directly to the Australian populace, largely by and through their media, China's capacity for gunboat diplomacy.
Definitely one way for Beijing to "make the case" directly to the Australian populace, especially at a time when Uncle Sam appears to be retreating towards isolationism, at least relatively speaking.
Looks like some of these old cartoons might need updating soon . . .
Though New Zealand might be getting the message or at least a portion thereof, and of 107 Zunyi and her cohorts:
Not too sure what the Australian defence establishment or their senior officials are contemplating right now, but at least at this point:
There is talk of bolstering the defense forces to protect Australia from China, more ships more missiles ....
It's insanity! Australia with a population of 26 million against a country that has an 'official' defense budget that is almost as large as Australia's total GDP (after purchase price parity is taken into account. )
just perhaps flying sub hunting exercises in P8 Orions and doing FON runs to antagonize a super power in it's own back yard on behalf of the US is not the smartest idea in the world!
I think this is probably what happened. After the first round of live firing exercise and seeing no response CMC went "playing dumb are you? Another live fire exercise tomorrow!"
Except it as it turns out:
It seems like ADF was maybe not deliberately playing dumb, they genuinely didn't read and process the message and also lacked the capability to detect a live fire exercise. Well I think they've learnt their lesson now and maybe will treat notice from PLA with more respect.