ZTQ-15 and PRC Light Tanks

313230

New Member
Sorry FCS is future combat system that aimed at 20 ton (18000kg) tank which was cancelled long time ago, that weight is ideal for wheeled vehicle.

What do you mean by tracked vehicle is more expensive to operate by destroying inertia? Does tracked vehicle get engine/ transmission destroyed faster? Or the track get destroyed faster?

If wheeled vehicle get the same ground pressure as tracked vehicle, will it get the same off road capability? Some off road 4x4 are awesome, even tracked vehicle is hard to follow, e.g hill climbing.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Why does track provide better off road mobility? Is it lower ground pressure or what else?

Also, why is wheeled vehicle cheaper? They (track and wheel) can have the same engine and transmission, while wheeled vehicle needs to transmit power to every wheel, tracked vehicle only needs to transfer power to two drive wheel.

Given that FCS aimed at 20 ton tracked tank, if that goal can be met for a tracked tank, what do you think about convert that weight into a wheeled vehicle?

Sorry FCS is future combat system that aimed at 20 ton (18000kg) tank which was cancelled long time ago, that weight is ideal for wheeled vehicle.

What do you mean by tracked vehicle is more expensive to operate by destroying inertia? Does tracked vehicle get engine/ transmission destroyed faster? Or the track get destroyed faster?

If wheeled vehicle get the same ground pressure as tracked vehicle, will it get the same off road capability? Some off road 4x4 are awesome, even tracked vehicle is hard to follow, e.g hill climbing.
Tracks also absorb recoil better because of there weight distribution. A 8x8 Lav III based hull can take the recoil of a 105mm tank gun and weight a little over 20 tons a tracked CV90 with about the same weight can pack a 120mm tank gun.

The primary issue with tracks is the track. A tire is easy a track is made up of lots of separate prices each attacked by a complex joint. Some tracks can cheat this though. If the vehicle is about 20 tons or less it can use a band track. In essence a huge rubber band with steel plates molded into it. Which brings us to why tracks are better on terrain. Surface area. A tire is a large rubber wheel it has its surface area in contact with the ground only across a small portion its circumference to try and add traction the tire has a tread, a set of grooves and other features cut into it to try and increase its surface area. Adding to this you will also have multiple tires on a vehicle like a APC hull maybe 6x6 or 8x8 even some push 10x10. But they cannot compete with a track of equal length. A track has massive surface area because its not just in contact at the rims of the road wheels that guide it along. Well a tire might have maybe 15% of its outer rim in contact with the ground a track can have a third of its surface on the ground and that surface being articulated and covered in its own set of grooves creates a huge amount of surface.
Now the track rides on a series of wheels these include bogies, The Sprocket, and road wheels. tracks road wheels normal has to be mounted to a independent arm allowing a separate range of motion for shock absorption. Now where a wheeled platform might have 6 to 8 suspension arms one per wheel. A track can have as many as 14 to 18! One for each row wheel.

Adding to this is the method of steering. A wheeled armored vehicle operates on the same principles as your car, A steering wheel is connected via the shaft to the power steering hydraulic system. you turn the steering wheel left the front wheels turn left turn to the right and the same. this method was shared with the Half Tracks of WW2 but it cant work in a tank. If you try to turn a Track by shifting the front wheels it will fail. So how do you turn a tank? You turn a tank by driving with the Throttle and the transmission. You speed one track well slowing if not reversing the other. this demands either a drive by wire system in the form of a electric drive or more commonly two transmissions. Imagine driving a car with no steering wheel two gas petals and two manual transmissions...
more modern western tracked vehicles use a more sophisticated driving system that allows a more conventional steering wheel but it still operates on the same principles accelerate left idle right to turn to the right.
well a wheeled platform can get away with a more conventional transmission.
 
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Miragedriver

Brigadier
Why does track provide better off road mobility? Is it lower ground pressure or what else?
Also, why is wheeled vehicle cheaper? They (track and wheel) can have the same engine and transmission, while wheeled vehicle needs to transmit power to every wheel, tracked vehicle only needs to transfer power to two drive wheel.
Given that FCS aimed at 20 ton tracked tank, if that goal can be met for a tracked tank, what do you think about convert that weight into a wheeled vehicle?

Sorry it took a while to get back to you. In regards to your questions:

A tank provides better off road mobility than a tracked vehicle in an off road situation. A tank, by nature of its tracked system< can pivot in place unlike a wheeled vehicle. A wheeled vehicle can maneuver better in built up areas, such as towns and cities. I guess that this can be called agility - a combination of high speed, good acceleration, and the ability to "zig-zag"--is also key to being able to respond flexibly to rapidly changing opportunities and challenges.

Wheel vehicles are cheaper: Wheeled vehicles have mechanically simpler suspensions (fewer wheels, no track links, fewer parts in general, etc.) and are easier and quicker to repair. Additionally the engines and transmission required are not as large or expensive as those of large tracked vehicles

The problem with wheeled vehicles is they fast reach an upper weight limit, around the 30 ton range, where performance goes completely out the window; wheels just offer far less footprint to spread the weight around than tracks. As designers start adding heavier armor packages and bigger guns, tracks become the only option.

Once off-road and in soft ground or deep sand, wheeled vehicles get into real trouble; tracks provide much greater off-road mobility, whether in Bosnian mud and snow or the soft sands of Iraq’s western desert. Also, the mud brick wall crushing ability of tracks often comes in handy, as the Canadians discovered (as the Russians did before them) when fighting the Taliban in the “green belts” of southern Afghanistan where farm fields are divided by thick walls. The Canadians airlifted Leopard tanks to provide troops there armored, mobile direct fire support; the tank’s big guns proved very useful in blowing “mouse holes” in walls and buildings, allowing troops to move through rather than around structures. As the U.S. military learned in Baghdad, the 70 ton Abrams is a most effective mobile pillbox.


The bottling of Malbec will stop until Popeye returns
 

Lezt

Junior Member
Sorry FCS is future combat system that aimed at 20 ton (18000kg) tank which was cancelled long time ago, that weight is ideal for wheeled vehicle.

What do you mean by tracked vehicle is more expensive to operate by destroying inertia? Does tracked vehicle get engine/ transmission destroyed faster? Or the track get destroyed faster?

If wheeled vehicle get the same ground pressure as tracked vehicle, will it get the same off road capability? Some off road 4x4 are awesome, even tracked vehicle is hard to follow, e.g hill climbing.

Re Intertia. Imagine you are swinging on a swing in a park, you will keep on penduluming for some time as the mass (you) is swinging on a point and on a circular path. Now imagine if you are on that swing, and at each swing, you jump off and walk to the back of the swing to be swung again, it will take much more effort than just swinging on the swing. the mass (you) are traveling on a non circular path.

The first case is like a wheel, mass rotates along an axial and inertia keeps it rolling and very little inertia is lost/destroyed. the latter is like a tracked vehicle, the mass (the tracks) does not travel on a linear or circular path and each track link piviots on the next and there is mechanical loss per each piviot. i.e. a track might have hundreds of pivot points, while a wheel only have one at the axial. therefore, a track will exhaust it's inertia much quicker than a wheel and it takes much more energy to move it.

If you have a bicycle, flip it upsidedown, turn the pedals, and let go. you will realize that the pedal stops much quicker than the wheel as the chain - like the track - destroys inertia.
If you try to turn a Track by shifting the front wheels it will fail. So how do you turn a tank? You turn a tank by driving with the Throttle and the transmission. You speed one track well slowing if not reversing the other. this demands either a drive by wire system in the form of a electric drive or more commonly two transmissions. Imagine driving a car with no steering wheel two gas petals and two manual transmissions...
more modern western tracked vehicles use a more sophisticated driving system that allows a more conventional steering wheel but it still operates on the same principles accelerate left idle right to turn to the right.
well a wheeled platform can get away with a more conventional transmission.

TE not to be a pain, but there are many ways to steer a tracked vehicle, some do turn the front and rear set of wheels (Tetrarch Tetrarch-and-Alecto-2.jpg) some moves the inner wheels to the left or right so that the track runs in a curve.

Even the orthodox differential speed of track turn systems can be very simple, i.e. Panzer4/T34/Christie brake/clutch with a differential (no neutral steer, but can pivot on one one track ). The Sherman used a geared steering, i.e. one track is faster than the other (no neutral steer, cannot pivot on on track, have minimum turn radius). The Tiger/Churchill had a triple elliptical differential gear box; the Panther have a double elliptical differential gear box that allows neutral steer. You also have hydraulic and electric motor drives which can neutral steer. You don't need dual transmissions - but of course that had been tried (with two engines too)
 

no_name

Colonel
Picture of a new light tank.

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kyuryu

Junior Member
That's some complex lines on the turret. Interesting.

Looks somewhat like a leopard 2 "lite" with the leopard 1's 105 mm main armament...

Assuming it's price competitive, it should have a good future replacing the very large number of legacy t-54-era tanks around the world... very nice light tank.
 

imranyounus

New Member
Registered Member
If they can shift the engion at front and make some room at rare for 4 to 6 solders it will really be a handy vehical for close combat battles
 

Broccoli

Senior Member
Looks somewhat like a leopard 2 "lite" with the leopard 1's 105 mm main armament...

Assuming it's price competitive, it should have a good future replacing the very large number of legacy t-54-era tanks around the world... very nice light tank.

It's hull side would need some protection against RPG's and other such weapons.
 
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