ZTQ-15 and PRC Light Tanks

I was looking up Refleks-type missiles, but got nothing. The 105mm, however, only sports 650mm RHAe. We only need it to be able to penetrate a T-90's armor, and moreover, it's uncertain how effective it would be against the Kontakt-5 ERA on the T-90Ms.

It's not that bad, tbh, the main problem is that the Chinese 105mm beam-rides, meaning that it can be countered by destroying the designator, so it's only useful provided it can target the T-90s at max range, something not guaranteed in mountain warfare.

T-90s are very formidable and actually more well armoured in the frontal arc than most assume from its weight. But who actually really thinks tanks are going to be survivable with so much artillery around. ATGMs have much better range and penetration especially top attack versions than APFSDS rounds from a 105mm upgraded L7. Sorry but the Type 15 isn't there to kill T-90s... maybe the 105mm can kill some T-72 with older ERA at most.

Tanks have more purpose than fighting other tanks and the 29hp/t for the Type 15 and dedicated high altitude purpose suggest it will have far superior mobility than any tank at these high altitude moutainous terrains. It is bunker busting, anti-personnel, and medium armour (certainly more than the other tracked and wheeled IFVs including from the Indian side). Very flexible overall but it requires PLAAF to provide air superiority and WZ-10 and drones to cover and knock out any T-90s fielded. All the T-90 versions in India have around 20-25hp/t and none are designed for high altitude performance. They're also much wider than the Type 15. Its immobility pretty much means deploying the T-90 is completely pointless. They won't get close enough to stationary PLA targets without being decimated by drones and WZ-10s from over 10km away.

Weird that you guys are trying to have 15 fight T-90...

I mean, type 15 wasn't even designed for anti tank, I think I've made it clear enough in former posts... Go check what a tank is on whatever search engine... Tanks are never specified for anti-tank missions since its birth 103 years ago.
15's anti tank capabilities are only for emergency cases, or cases that we have full confidence that 15's enough to strike enemies off, or simply to save some money on ATGMs or GP/GRs... Rather, if a 15 really encounters a T-90, it's gonna be due to the negligence of either the commanders or the reconnaissance... Why bother wasting the lives of three trained tankmen and one tank that can provide potent assault, when you can do the job with simply HJ-10 or WZ-10s...
But all that is not to say the type 15 is bad at tackling tanks, the 105IV is even as formidable as the 125III, but tanks do more than just fighting off tanks, and there are much more efficient methods that can wipe out tanks like crazy...

I guess some guys still don't get the point of systematic battle... Hope this is enough for understanding.

Totally true. WZ-10, WZ-19, and the countless attack drones are what will be used against Indian tanks. HJ missiles mounted on vehicles are absolutely more effective anti-tank platforms than world leading MBT. What will Indians be using against Chinese Type 15 and Type 96 that may get deployed into those regions? Dhruv? The attack helicopter they've got literally a handful of? The one that's had 5 out of 7 failing and crashing? India's Rustom looks like a high school project with even less combat capability and limited recon. It's not even in service in proper numbers. Not aware of any real India combat drones. PLA has thousands and a dozen different types already with decade of service and experience.

So Type 15 won't be meeting any tanks. The main purpose of MBTs truly isn't limited to anti-tanking.

RichardGao said:

Weird that you guys are trying to have 15 fight T-90...

I mean, type 15 wasn't even designed for anti tank, I think I've made it clear enough in former posts... Go check what a tank is on whatever search engine... Tanks are never specified for anti-tank missions since its birth 103 years ago.
15's anti tank capabilities are only for emergency cases, or cases that we have full confidence that 15's enough to strike enemies off, or simply to save some money on ATGMs or GP/GRs... Rather, if a 15 really encounters a T-90, it's gonna be due to the negligence of either the commanders or the reconnaissance... Why bother wasting the lives of three trained tankmen and one tank that can provide potent assault, when you can do the job with simply HJ-10 or WZ-10s...
But all that is not to say the type 15 is bad at tackling tanks, the 105IV is even as formidable as the 125III, but tanks do more than just fighting off tanks, and there are much more efficient methods that can wipe out tanks like crazy...

I guess some guys still don't get the point of systematic battle... Hope this is enough for understanding.

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Hi RichardGao

great post , that's why HJ-10, Z10 is deploy alongside the new truck mounted artillery PC181 with TYPE 15, its a combine armed systems , the only thing I didnt see is air defense, maybe HQ-17 can be deployed there too. Thanks very much , I learned a lot .

ansy1968 said:

Hi RichardGao

great post , that's why HJ-10, Z10 is deploy alongside the new truck mounted artillery PC181 with TYPE 15, its a combine armed systems , the only thing I didnt see is air defense, maybe HQ-17 can be deployed there too. Thanks very much , I learned a lot .

Click to expand...

The air defence is present but hasn't been shown on video that shows off the artillery pieces. Probably because they don't want to show what systems are currently deployed but good guesses will include HQ-9 and HQ-16, both of which are not point defence systems and will be positioned far enough from the artillery pieces to not be recorded by those vids. Shorter range SAMs and point defence systems would probably be deployed also if they're not already. PLAAF is really the first layer of "air defence" though when it comes to India China border conflicts and the Indians are going to need to throw everything at the PLAAF to really get a chance at dropping a stand off weapon. IAF vs PLAAF will be interesting and the more important fight. Indians won't try and have since stopped flight patrols anywhere near Chinese positions after air defence systems have been positioned. The Indians are hardcore braggarts but their leaders aren't suicidal. IAF vs PLAAF is suicide for the IAF, especially if J-20s come out for some combat experience.

ougoah said:

The air defence is present but hasn't been shown on video that shows off the artillery pieces. Probably because they don't want to show what systems are currently deployed but good guesses will include HQ-9 and HQ-16, both of which are not point defence systems and will be positioned far enough from the artillery pieces to not be recorded by those vids. Shorter range SAMs and point defence systems would probably be deployed also if they're not already. PLAAF is really the first layer of "air defence" though when it comes to India China border conflicts and the Indians are going to need to throw everything at the PLAAF to really get a chance at dropping a stand off weapon. IAF vs PLAAF will be interesting and the more important fight. Indians won't try and have since stopped flight patrols anywhere near Chinese positions after air defence systems have been positioned. The Indians are hardcore braggarts but their leaders aren't suicidal. IAF vs PLAAF is suicide for the IAF, especially if J-20s come out for some combat experience.

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Hi ougoah

Thanks for your reply, I think HQ-16 maybe but HQ-9, its overkill. From what I read, IAF had difficulties operating in that region, aside from aircraft it need airbase close enough to support the ground operation.

The PLA operational objective from my view is 1962 part 2, but will stay and will not withdraw. Taking strategic defensible position is the main mission, the fait accompli. Sorry for deviating from the thread.

You guys are aware that india is deploying T90s to counter the PLA Type15s already deployed To Tibet, not the other way around right?

The Indian T90 deployment is typically knee-jerk, copy-cat, and all flare and no substance; as we should now come to expect from India.

China showed video of Type15s exercising in Tibet, so India needs to have tanks in the region as well. The T90 is tank with the best mobility in Indian inventories, but it really is a case of least worst rather than best, as is the case with the Type15, which had high altitude performance as a key design feature.

Indian T90s are all for show, and will be of exceptionally limited use if there was actual combat.

They will suffer the same geographical limitations as any MBT trying to operate in the area, and are literally stuck in a naturals cauldron with nowhere to advance to, and only one narrow, poor quality road that the PLA overlooks to retreat from.

It will be incredibly easy for the PLA to simply bottle them up and either obliterate them with long range artillery, or simply wait for them to run out of fuel and get some free T90s to play with or to add to museum collections.

The Type15s, OTOH, will be able to go places the T90 has no chance of following or countering, and are intended to spearhead advances against India bunkers and strong points.

Even where it cannot physically get to, the Type15 would still have a very good chance of getting to high ground overlooking the engagement area to provide direct fire support.

I am doubtful if PLA Type15s would even carry sabot rounds if combat was joined. Instead they will probably just carry a number of ATGMs as anti-tank back up, that will still be fairly effective against bunkers and the like so they are not wasting any ammo slots.

We have to remember that the Chinese Bastion derivatives are only what is being offered for export, and it is pretty much standard practice for the PLA to always keep something better off limits for sales that they rely on themselves.

China already fields top attack conventional ATGMs, so a 105mm tank fired one is certainly not beyond their capabilities, the only question is one of cost and time.

But even with Bastions, a Type15 can give a T90 a good run for its money. Even if a hit doesn’t kill the T90 outright, it will be mission killed at a bare minimum. Bastions far outrange the T90s gun, but even if the T90 does manage to get within range to take a shot, the Type15’s APS has a very good chance of stopping it, so bean riding is not that big of an issue.

But the main point is that Type15s shouldn’t be seeing T90s, and those T90s India are claiming to be deploying can be dealt with easily enough without needing Type15s or Z10s or drones.

A few specops spotters with a radio will be enough to see them obliterated by long range PLA artillery.

Alright guys, time to move on... the mods are already aiming their warning shots and polishing their bonk hammers...

Not sure if this has been posted before because it's an old video. Never mind, if already posted just watched it once again. Quite a detail introduction of the VT-5: live fire testing, APS, etc... (note: APS is fired from a testing platform, not from an actual VT-5, commentary says it is possible to install on VT-5 because the system is small and light)